Lets all Switch to Hydrogen

[teraflop122]

I heard about the 10km solar array as well. We probably watched the same exact thing ~_~

I really think that, if we can put our minds to good use, we can create a power grid based entirely on renewable sources- or nuclear sources.

[Sparkfist]

Really what I think would be nice is if we did away with our ancient style of power. What would be better is to have houses that have gas lines just get their own generators, or something simalar. I know natural gas is going up in price and it's believed that it's reserves are in decline, but having just water and gas go to a house, and gas be the means of electrical power would remove our present power grid. I want the damn thing gone as I'm sure something like '03 will happen again.

Interestingly enough when I did a research paper on Hydrogen-Fuel Cells, I read and made note that if Hydrogen became as used a natural gas or gasoline you could have a source of it right you your house and have it used a fuel cell stack in your basement/utility closet to power your house. Well I'm sure Edison would be against it, something like this is already in effect. There are some companies that generate excess energy and get paid to offer it to an electrical company's power grid.

[Extreme_Jesus]

Reminds of of a funny story i read in the hewspaper a few years ago.

The owner of a Fish and chip shop was running his car off the oil leftover from his deepfat fryer and it was working fine. But he got arrest and fined because it wasnt legal because he wasnt paying fuel tax on it

And, of course, that is why fuel is so expensive in Europe.

Also we have no natural oil fields (except russia) like you do, so naturally as we have to import all our fuel (where as the U.S only import 60%) the prices would be higher, but then we never notice when they go up a bit because weve always had high prices

Also the government are money grabbers

[Sparkfist]

Reminds of of a funny story i read in the hewspaper a few years ago.

The owner of a Fish and chip shop was running his car off the oil leftover from his deepfat fryer and it was working fine. But he got arrest and fined because it wasnt legal because he wasnt paying fuel tax on it

And, of course, that is why fuel is so expensive in Europe.

Also we have no natural oil fields (except russia) like you do, so naturally as we have to import all our fuel (where as the U.S only import 60%) the prices would be higher, but then we never notice when they go up a bit because weve always had high prices

Also the government are money grabbers

What happened to the off shore oil field, you know the ones that have been pumped for oil in the past decade or more? I thought you guys had a great deal of oil to use.

I do know that it's not crude oil that is the primary reason gas costs a lot. The second varible in the equation is the refinaries. In the U.S. for example we have only a handful of oil refinaries, thier old, no new ones have been built since the '70s and Katrina showed that having a good number of them in the Gulf coast is a bad thing. If you don't have updated or new refinaries, you don't have enough that's something that will drive the price of gasoline up.

And yeah having a socialist style government does result in many taxes, some of which are unfair. Of which I will not argue, we have quite a few in the states. We just haven't conseded the fact our government is becoming more socialist then staying capitalist.

[Extreme_Jesus]

thanks to wonderful Maggie Thatcher [/sarcasm] she sold most of the north sea oil, and its all but run out now and so has all the North sea gas too. We get it all from the Russians now

And besides the north sea oil provided very little of out annual use and was mainly used in industry (plastics etc) rather than petrol production

[teraflop122]

What would be better is to have houses that have gas lines just get their own generators, or something simalar. I know natural gas is going up in price

Having millions of small generators would drive gas usage through the roof. Centralized power plants are more efficient and economical. As for the hydrogen, it would need to be derived from water or methane. If you're going to split water using on-sight solar cells or turbines, you might as well just use the energy directly and increase the system's efficiency. Methane is thought to be in decline, so that isn't a solution either. All of these are just technological fixes; they address a problem but don't actually solve it.

We just haven't conseded the fact our government is becoming more socialist then staying capitalist.

Or few people perceive a problem which doesn't exist. As far as I can see, the US government does not own and opperate any businesses, or control any industries. Hell, the government can't even manufacture the toilet paper holders for its own bathrooms. The US government does not meet the criteria for being socialist.

[Extreme_Jesus]

I have to agree there, the US government is in no way socialist, esspecially seeing as you have an incredibly right wing administration in at the moment.

But back on topic, as this is drifting slowly into politics, Wind farms are also another possiblilty for general oil based electricity manufacture, (lucky old england we always have wind ) but people dont like them because they "ruin the view" yet at the same time htese same people are campaigning against coal burning power stations.

Solar panels on people's roofs would halp ease the strain as well, it wouldnt provide all their electricity but could cut their need from the grid by 20% which is still better than nothing

[vskid]

Wind farms are also another possiblilty for general oil based electricity manufacture, (lucky old england we always have wind ) but people dont like them because they "ruin the view" yet at the same time htese same people are campaigning against coal burning power stations.

What about those kite-like wind turbines? They've been in Popular Science a couple times. Since they're several thousand feet up, you wouldn't see much besides the tether, and the wind is almost always blowing up there. Besides nuclear, these seem like the best way to go with renewable energy (and nuclear has the radioactive waste you have to put somewhere).

[Extreme_Jesus]

Im on about the big propellers ontop of poles in the middle of the countryside

but quite a few have been built off the north of scotland in the sea where its really windy and theres no view to ruin, but that only benifits the costal areas around there, no use to people more inland

[SNESguy]

Sparkfist wrote:

I highly doubte that solar can solve our problems with electrcity that easily. The big problem is that that power source is first only going to work durning the day, and secondly is seasonal.

I strictly disagree with you on that opinion for these reasons:

1. Our country's power consumption(as well as the rest of the world's) drops by about 70% during the nighttime simply because most businesses shut down and people go home. This coincides with solar power perfectly obviously because the sun's peak output is during our peak hours of work. The consumption at night is easily managable with existing power plants in existence right now.

2. Most solar plants exist in the midwest/southwestern sectors of our country where cloud cover and storms are almost non-existent most of the year, so their output is almost constantly at maximum.

3. Most people are forgetting that most of the solar energy harnessed right now is captured in the form of HEAT, not with pv solar cells. At the moment this is much cheaper than solar cells, and has lots of potential. (Just try sticking something at the focal point of a parabolic mirror!) The heat is concentrated to either a. drive steam turbines or b. (recently) power large sterling engines directly. There is a new plant which is also the most powerful one yet that utilizes method b- check out the link from wirednews.com: http://www.wired.com/news/planet/0,2782,69528,00.html

According the report, it will be 500MW, gigantic for a solar plant.

SNESguy

[teraflop122]

By seasonal, he may mean that the duration of day and the intensity of sunlight reaching the ground is reduced during the winter, when the sun stays closer to the horizon.