Handheld Gaming PC Things (Split)

[bicostp]

Split.

EDIT: WTF?! I told it to split a bunch of posts and it screws itself all up?!

EDIT 2: Fixed.

[samjc3]

Split.

EDIT: WTF?! I told it to split a bunch of posts and it screws itself all up?!

EDIT 2: Fixed.

good job. lovely split.


actually, it would be kind of cool if only 400 pandoras were released, because i will have money and preorder two, then they will end up being worth a lot, because there wont really be any out there.

[jjhammerstein]

.........unless they totally bomb and become worthless.

[palmertech]

because i will have money and preorder two

Have you already preordered? The first 4000 are already ordered.

[XCVG]

.........unless they totally bomb and become worthless.

.......which they will because nobody will develop anything for a 400-person userbase.

because i will have money and preorder two

Have you already preordered? The first 4000 are already ordered.

Wow. Are they even going to make that many?


In any case, why can't anyone agree on a standard? PCs have been x86 with one main OS (like it or not, most people use Windows, which is THE STANDARD) for years. Why, WHY, WHY can't we do that with a handheld too?

[bicostp]

Because the system-on-a-chip they're using is cheap and easy to build off of.

ARM dominates the embedded market almost as much as x86 holds the desktop/server market. (Actually I think ARM's biggest competition comes from the Zilog z80.) The main thing is power consumption. ARM CPUs use almost no power. The problem is they have very weak computational power compared to x86.

[palmertech]

Yes, they are making that many.

Because X86 generates too much heat, and eats too much power. No matter what you do, you have that problem. There is just no way around it; I say the ARM revolution is coming, and I am glad. The Pandora gets 10 hours at FULL CPU POWER, while 700mhz MIDs with X86 are lucky to get 2.

[tom61]

(Actually I think ARM's biggest competition comes from the Zilog z80.)

The main competitor of ARM is MIPS. MIPS processors power the PSP ( and PSX and PS2), consumer internet routers, netbooks that don't run x86 or ARM (not many of these yet, but they are cheap and look to be a big trend in developing nations and China) and many more embedded devices.

[XCVG]

Because X86 generates too much heat.

*facepalm*

That's like saying all trucks are crap, or all LCD monitors have huge color issues. x86 processors CAN be small, power efficient, and low power. The problem is that nobody has bothered to make a cool, low-power processor. Maybe VIA will step up to this plate? Maybe AMD? Intel has tried and failed.

Don't blame the architecture for the chip makers' shortcomings.

As I have said and said and said and said and said again, x86 is the universal standard. Wouldn't it be nice to have something that I could, like, you know, install normal apps on? The userbase is absolutely massive, so there's a plethora of apps.

And even ARM powered devices have no standardization among them. It wouldn't be so bad if I could run DS apps on a GP2X or Pandora.

(Actually I think ARM's biggest competition comes from the Zilog z80.)

The Z80 is an old outdated piece of crap that dates back to the 1980s. No way.

The main competitor of ARM is MIPS. MIPS processors power the PSP ( and PSX and PS2), consumer internet routers, netbooks that don't run x86 or ARM (not many of these yet, but they are cheap and look to be a big trend in developing nations and China) and many more embedded devices.

MIPS is pretty much a dead architecture. ARM is about 90% of the way to completely killing it. And hopefully x86 will kill ARM. Then we will live in a happy world where software is completely intercompatible with everything. Yeah, like that's ever going to happen. When will someone step up to the plate of making low power x86 devices? I guess it just doesn't have the allure (?) of making ultra-fast chips.

In any case, standard standard standard. There's a reason I'm an insane PC fanboy.

[palmertech]

x86 processors CAN be small, power efficient, and low power. The problem is that nobody has bothered to make a cool, low-power processor.

Actually, I am blaming the architecture. It is simply not made in such a way that you can scale down the heat and power drain; The only thing keeping X86 alive is it's huge userbase, it is an antiquated POS dating back to the 80's.

Via HAS made low power X86 CPUs. But guess what? Even those ULV Via chips at a mere 600mhz eat battery life faster than Oprah eats carbs. I really do wish there was a way, but face it: X86 is going to die. Not for a long time, of course; But the second that ARM gets to the point where we can emulate legacy apps of today, it will happen. Right now, ARM tops out at mid to high end 486 emulation, but it can only get better from here. Or maybe I am wrong, and ARM is destined to be merely a handheld and low power computer solution.

The point is, you can do all you want to make X86 smaller, power sipping, and low heat, but it will simply not happen. And if you DID: Guess what? By then, ARM will have advanced to be 5 times as powerful for the same power use, anyways!

Also, ARM is coming together as a compatible platform. There is no reason you cannot run DS games on a Pandora, except for the fact that no source code exists. Right now, the standard for ARM is .DEB packages, and the Ubuntu ARM repo has almost any piece of software available for normal linux.

Conclusion: I want a small X86 power computer as much as you. But it is simply not practical for everyday use.

[bicostp]

But by that point, x86 will have further progressed, so ARM would still be behind.

And guess what? ARM is ALSO "an antiquated POS dating back to the 80's", having been introduced in '83.

[AfroLH]

Dude,
The Pandora is Just Straight up GANGSTA...
End of Argument.

[XCVG]

I think ARM is destined to either die or stay a low power platform. The problem is that the architecture is designed for low power, so it's not really scalable to full power PC.

Just as ARM has evolved, so has x86. The Atom is only the beginning. I hope. If not I'm gonna send some hatemail

This could turn into a flame war so quickly. I'm going to try to keep my cool. Yeah, I'll probably run outside screaming and on fire.

[ShockSlayer]

This isn't a flame war. This.....is....DEBATE!!!!!!! [/sparta]

SS

[palmertech]

I think that the reall issue here is batteries. Rather than being upset about our differences, let us find common ground and rage about how battery tech has barely improved in 10 years.

And there are +1ghz ARM chips, and they get a lot more done per cycle than X68, too. Call me crazy, I just like ARM for some reason.

Oh, and another thing: While I do not think it will happen, a commercially OR homebrew Ion based MID with gaming controls would be heaven for me.