How to on the Earlier Snes?

Valium · Post by **Valium** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:42 am

bacteria wrote:Sure, if you need advice, pop me a PM or via my site.

As to the layout of your system, not good. Preference given to on/off and reset and not to the buttons and d-pad. Not clever. You need to have the controls placed where they are comfortable to use and the system feels fairly balanced when being held - ie where the "P" and "R" are on your pic.

If you LED a PSone screen you need to be looking at more than 3 LED's, more like 6 or 8; or better still, don't do the LED mod at all as the screen looks far more uniformly bright then.

As to batteries, using alkaline AA's with a PSone screen isn't great, you will have just over an hour before the batteries die (5 cells ok, 6 might blow the PSone mobo); using NiMH cells is counterproductive and either risky or in the other end of the scale, may not power up your system due to their losing power fast after recharge. Li-ions are the way forward, or Li-po, but cost more and you need a charger (and protection circuit for the Li-po).

Not sure why you're getting all your battery info from BoomBox, but NiMh aren't/don't do either of those things.

Gordon1 · Post by **Gordon1** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:09 am

Yeah they do, the loose their charge over time (up to 30% within a couple days) and an alkaline battery has a storage capacity of around 2700mah. But they would still be bad for a portable like this.

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:25 am

Valium - Sorry, you have your facts wrong. I got my facts from Skyone and others a while back, and from reading articles.

If you, for example, take a 1.2v AA NiMH cell and charge it, you can get about 1.54v straight after recharge. Leave it unused somewhere for a few days and the voltage drops to just over 1v typically (if a NiMH cell drops much more than this it can damage the cell too BTW - had a few cells binned because of this). This means in a portable system, that if you used 6 of these cells you get just over 9v straight after charge (blow the PSone screen), leave it for a week or so after charging and you get about 6.2v which isn't even enough to power the PSone screen. Use 5 cells to stop the PSone screen blowing and you start at about 7.5v but quickly lose voltage (still no use!). I know this also from my own testings. I tried with C sized cells, same result, so it is down to NiMH cells. No use.

This is why NiMH cells are no use in a portable. I know if you use 5 x alkaline cells (about 7.5v when unused) you get about 1.25 hours or so before the PSone screen dies. Alkalines are expensive and don't last long.

Li-ion or Li-po are the sensible options.

Valium · Post by **Valium** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:56 pm

..Right. You're talking to the person who's been touting Ni-Mh cells as some of the best batteries out there right now. Let's get some facts straight.

- A fully charged Ni-Mh cell has a high point of 1.35-1.45v, which at highest possible voltage is still only 8.7v with 6 cells. That's well in the range of the Psone screens and the majority, if not all of the consoles we use. Not even to mention that that voltage stays regular at 8.7v for maybe a few minutes.

- The self discharge rate of a Ni-Mh is around 5-10% the first day after charging. And a .5-1% each day following, 4000mAh sub c's would be around 3500mAh after 3 days, at the highest possible discharge rate. This is not nearly the same as 30% in a couple of days. If you have Ni-Mh cells that lose their power that quickly, they're either not new, or they're defective.

Also, alkalines are worthless for portables. Their electro-chemistry is different than that of any rechargeable cell, and do not have an accurate amp rating because of it. As far as comparison goes, in a low drain application, around 50mAh, an alkaline battery would have about 2800mAh. But this all changes depending on the application, in a mid-low application, say 200mAh, the alkaline would have closer to 2300. A mid application of say 400mAh, the alkaline would be around 1700. So on and so forth. The screens alone are 700mAh without the led mod, high enough that alkalines are all but worthless to use.

Bacteria, I suggest you get your facts straight before arguing blindly.

Nicholas64 · Post by **Nicholas64** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:08 pm

Ok, well thanks ever so much for your very useful info bacteria. Also wanted to state that yes, i will brain storm on some more case designs and if anyone thinks they have good case ideas ill be more than happy to take the advice. Im going to work on a new case with that said. however im trying my very best not to stray to far off the Pal Snes's design. I thought it would be Rather Intriguing to make it look similar, yet, smaller and better. Anyway im logging off after this post so i can pick up the 7.2v NiMh batteries but will be back on later. This project is now of me and my cousin so you'll hear from him on his forum account 2. Again sorry for the awfully long post. Thank for your time in reading and thanks for all the help so far.

EDIT: I dont know why, probably for a precaution im going to buy Lithium ions as well. As for the led mod on the ps1 screen I will take the advice of some more Leds rather than three.

Kurt_ · Post by **Kurt_** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:35 pm

And i also have Wires.

That made me laugh.

If you're going Lithium Ion, make sure you save some of your wires for a protection circuit. Otherwise you'll have a bomb. But at least it will have wires.

(The sentence was funny because it's almost assumed that everyone has wire. Also, the plural made it seem as though you had pre-cut sections of wire you were aching to use. I can't really explain why it's funny, but it is.)

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:07 pm

Kurt_ - Li-ions have the protection circuit built in typically, Li-po don't and need the extra circuit.

Nicholas64 - If you go for a Retro Duo and PSone screen, you could always wait to buy my cases (which will go on sale in the next few weeks). The Li-ions my cases are designed to use are the Canon 911 or 915 Li-ions, half size (20mm high), 7.4v, 2000mA - 2 in case = 4000mA. Up to you (or you can make your own case if you prefer). Have a look on my PlayStation thread to see what my case looks like (WIP).

Valium - The voltages I quoted were based on my own personal findings from my own NiMH cells (AA's and C cells) and my own multimeter. I got up to 1.54v per cell after recharge (as reported by my multimeter), multiply that by 6 cells and you get 9.24v. This would blow a PSone screen immediately, as in fact over 8.5v is likely to anyway.

You talk about amps I was talking volts. I couldn't measure amperage loss but I did measure voltage loss. You might like NiMH cells, that is your right and preference. I have found out the hard way, with my experience in modding, that NiMH are good in principle but not in practice.

Valium · Post by **Valium** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:11 pm

Bacteria, that 1.54v was not under load. And if you didn't notice, the whole first point was about voltages and not amps.

Nicholas64 · Post by **Nicholas64** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:33 pm

Interesting, Very interesting. I would like to see these cases so i will check them out when i can. I would be willing to buy one, And unfortuanatley i had to back out on the batteries on such short notice because when i got home from school i had to leave for my Summer house so my father could go vote. However this gives me more time to think. and more time to work. I also Must say bacteria, That your website is proving to be very helpful and explains well, i am glad to know i can refer to it, and you yourself for help.

Ahh soo much editing, i find myself adding things i didnt add before too often. However, that isnt what im editing for. I want to say that ill soon take some pictures of where im at and what i have. Not exactly u know, into the nitty gritty yet, but sooner or later i will be. Its confusing yet undertstandable but im sure ill get how things work and put it all together. Like i said im only 13....

Kurt_ · Post by **Kurt_** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:17 pm

I suggest not designing a finished product right off the bat, but just a rough outline.

I fried 2 to 4 SNES boards making my first portable, trying all sorts of different designs and orientations I hadn't originally planned. In the end, its innards were laid out exactly the same as in Ben's book. (Well not EXACTLY.) It was the best design for the project.

Keep it simple, stupid. Expand after you have a working product.

Gordon1 · Post by **Gordon1** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:32 pm

bacteria wrote: Li-ions have the protection circuit built in typically, Li-po don't and need the extra circuit.

WOAH, watch it with the li-ion statements or you might be the cause of someone burning their house down. The li-ion batteries you buy are shoved in a plastic housing and have a protection circuit built in. However, people like me who buy just the cells don't have protection circuits built in (it has to be wired in).
Also, li-ion and li-po are basically the same thing. Both need protection circuits.

The two chemistry's come in both form factors (plastic cases and bare cells). It is just more common that li-ions are found in a plastic came (camcorder(has a protection circuit)) and li-po are bare cells (no protection).

SO, since this person has such little knowledge of these systems please don't say things like that!

bacteria · Post by **bacteria** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:36 am

Gordon1 - Fair point, I wasn't aware you could buy Li-ions that weren't encased in a plastic shell ready to use. Most certainly, if you just get bare Li-ion cells you will definitely need a protection circuit. Good point Gordon1. I should have said "Li-ions encased in a plastic shell have a protection circuit built in already, eg camcorder ones".

What would be useful to everyone, Gordon1 (or anyone else), is if there were pics and links to easy to get hold of protection circuits (eg e-bay items that can be bought easily or sites selling them that ship outside the USA for reasonable shipping costs, as we don't all live in the US) to work on 7.4v batteries (as that is the voltage we need the most for our projects): also, any info about wiring the two together (unless obvious).

It would be a good thing to add to this site.

Nicholas64 - Thanks for your kind comments, greatly appreciated. Just a pity I can't make as fast progress on other systems as I want to, but I am just one man, with a demanding 24 hour rotating shift pattern at work and only a certain amount of time to devote to my project work!

There are hundreds of ways of making a portable system. Feel free to experiment from the ground up, make mistakes, design, test, spend a lot of time and money getting a result; then realising you can make it better (adding more cost, design, etc for a next version system); as I have done

. For example, after months of work making my Nintendo 64 Advance, I barely used it, ripped it apart for parts for upgrade version, better). My thoughts are that if your funds are limited and you just want to make a working system in a small and nice case (probably most people here!) then that is the reason to put your project on hold and see how my project works out in case it is what you want. I will have full production guides for each system on my site to make it easy to follow and copy.

If you like my system and the way it looks (I will make YouTube vids of each system when completed) then you can follow my step-by-step guide to the letter and end up with your own system. I would suggest therefore that you might like to just get, at this stage, a PSone screen, a PSone console / Retro Duo / N64 console (if you want to make these systems - my casing will work for all three), two suitable controllers, plus all the usual stuff like soldering iron, solder, desoldering braid, decent wires, etc. If you don't buy my case, you will need these components anyway (and more). Don't buy the batteries at this stage, if you go with my system you will be advised to get the ones I use as you know they fit in my system. Search on e-bay for "Canon BP-911" or "Canon BP-915" batteries, and charger. You would need two batteries and one charger - gives you an idea of their costs; they are easy to get hold of. It is easy to spend lots of cash on batteries and then find out they aren't suitable (as I have done; (DS Lite cells, NiMH C cells, NiMH AA cells, etc)), better to use what you know are good.

As to help, I am always happy to assist with advice and details. I don't try to keep my knowledge to myself, I am happy to share all I know and help others.

Just PM me or pop to my forum and ask away!

Nicholas64 · Post by **Nicholas64** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:23 pm

Well, i certainly learned Quite a bit today. I talked to some of my fathers friends that i see often. They generally know a lot about this, so I learned a bit from them. Keep in mind if some of this info is incorrect, its because its been quite a few years since they worked with stuff like this.
Anyway, Heres a Picture i made on paint. This can be different for certain applications and what not. But pretty much this is what i learned:

I didnt spend too much time on it, or w/e. Anyway, I also got to get a bit of experience with soldering. I have a new soldering gun. and some solder. and i got a 7.2v battery charger. and will soon be collecting the batteries. However. How many packs would i need. 1 or 2? Does it need to run off simply 7 volts, or 14 volts? ive seen LoB use 2 packs, so im guessing it needs to run off 14 volts. I also got a bit of experience with the multi meter, and now i have all these things at my disposal pretty much.

Gordon1 · Post by **Gordon1** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:16 pm

FYI Something that transform DC to ac is Called a rectifier.

LOB uses 2 3.7v lithium cells wired in series, or two 7.4v packs wired in series. Not all batteries are 7.2v For instance, your rc car pack is made up of 6 1.2v cells wired in series. You only need 7.2v for this however.

Nicholas64 · Post by **Nicholas64** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:30 am

Ok, Glad to know im learning more. And Thanks for the info on the batteries. So ill just pick my self up one pack. Also now i know the difference between transformer and rectifier. woohoo. little bits of learning should amount to something great over time. Ill be buried in some school work so might not be on for a bit. but every now and then i can check to see what u guys are posting.

EDIT:woohoo. Im through my school work and now my first marking period is ova, yea good grades. Anyway. Ill be doing a lot of reading. and what not down in my little work shop. i have the biggest assortment of tools and crap to help out. What i have thats mainly for the project is, the batteries and charger, soldering kit, solder, multi meter. Fully ripped outa da case mobo, what else should i need b4 i actually get started. Nothing related towards a case. Im going to put that off for when i work out cartridge slot relocation, (once i figure out how i relocate it).