Jack Thompson: Maybe he's right...just a little?

Harshboy · Post by **Harshboy** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:37 pm

Jack Thompson: Maybe he's right...just a little?

Okay, I'm calling shenanigans...

project_failure · Post by **project_failure** » Fri May 30, 2008 11:58 pm

What's really happened, and I don't want this to turn into a religious discussion but, a total lose of morals when they pushed for all religious symbols be removed from public display.

The removal of religious displays has led to a decrease in morals? The way I see it is that religion is something for the church and the home, not state and government property. Putting up religious displays can make people not in the majority feel alienated and even unwanted.

I agree that most people don't want more government intervention. They want to raise their kids according to their ideals (or not at all).

Post by **Triton** » Sat May 31, 2008 12:19 am

i hate people who have an opinion or idea and try to force it on everybody else via legislation and crap like that (eg videogames are evil we should ban them)

Chapel · Post by **Chapel** » Sat May 31, 2008 3:36 am

Sparkfist wrote:And I think this should be made clear in this thread. Over the past decade, the FBI has seen a decrees of teen crimes involving violence or murder. Now I know that Jack Thompson argues otherwise, but you can't dispute those facts. So really the only problem we have is that society is slowing going down the tubes. I'm not saying that past decades were all perfect, but you have to admit that some of them social-wise were better then what we have now, and I think we need to try to get back to those values or ideals.

Are we worse off in the social aspect now? I am not sure if this is the case. Keep in mind that several decades ago, women were just getting the right to vote. So, 'better' becomes something of a relative term.

Now, if we could accept social freedoms with responsibility... that would make this 'better' term a whole lot less fuzzy, but asking for personal responsibility may be asking for too much. Sadly

Negative_Creep · Post by **Negative_Creep** » Sat May 31, 2008 3:37 am

You all watch the news and crimewatch too much

Post by **Sparkfist** » Sat May 31, 2008 7:01 am

Chapel, first off women got the right to vote, earily 20th century, not a few decades ago. And to restate myself, I said not everything was perfect. I'm making the comparison that in years gone by there were social ties that had people working together for the greater good. Granted in the 40s it was to fight the Nazis and Japanese, in the 50s it was the Koreans and then we had that whole three decades of fighting communism.

In those days we had a focus on the community. Now everyone is trying to do things themselves, and in some cases that might be worth admiration, but what is the point of forming a society if all we're going to do is lookout of ourselves and not help others?

Project_failure, like it or not religious beliefs do instill a core of morals, as well the idea of helping others. Since the early 90s, they have pushed things like that further and further away from children in schools that they don't see any of these things as important. We don't even do the pledge of allegiance any more.

And most of the people that have lobbied for the removal of these icons from the public don't do it for any other reason the that they don't believe in that and feel it's being forced upon them. That's crap, and it's unfortunate that these people have been given into.

Now I wanted to avoid turning this into a religious discussion no I'll try and summarize my point. "If people have nothing to believe in, and have not been raised without a sense of community, what kind of society will they leave in their wake?"

mothatrucka · Post by **mothatrucka** » Sat May 31, 2008 7:58 am

I'm not a religious guy by any means, so I'm not sitting here advocating that everyone needs to be. Fact is, MOST religions all have the same message, though. "Treat everyone the way you want to be treated". I don't care what else you choose to believe, that still remains the best advice I've ever heard. When religion is hushed up, no one's hearing that message. Again, I'm not religious, but it's still just a good way to live.

Post by **CronoTriggerfan** » Sat May 31, 2008 9:42 am

Sparkfist and mothatrucka, perfectly stated, took the words right out of my mouth.

I, too, am not at all religious (I tend to be agnostic, in fact), but I do recognize that a higher power is very humbling, as well as instilling in the sense of morality. As for the cultural breakdown you each mentioned, it has a big deal to do with two main trains of thought in this country, one of which I personally feel is dangerous, and they are that either a) We should turn Earth into our utopia, or b) Utopia can't be found on Earth, only in the afterlife, but we should make the best of our time here. Take a wild guess which one I think is stupid!

cowsgoquack101 · Post by **cowsgoquack101** » Sat May 31, 2008 10:30 am

I'm not very religious (parents didn't really go to church after I was 5, Grandparents were catholic and methodist), but when we say the pledge in the morning I don't stand up for it. I feel that I don't need to say an oath to our country every morning. But I do have the moment of silence for everyone who's died. It's humble and I just want to beat those who talk through it.

This kid who did this has no morals and he doesn't seem to be very intelligent. He is a wanna-be gangsta.

Also, all of you who say look at his society, his grandma drives a Lincoln SUV and those aren't cheap. I'm sure he has some money and lives in a decent neighborhood.

project_failure · Post by **project_failure** » Sat May 31, 2008 7:08 pm

Project_failure, like it or not religious beliefs do instill a core of morals, as well the idea of helping others. Since the early 90s, they have pushed things like that further and further away from children in schools that they don't see any of these things as important. We don't even do the pledge of allegiance any more.

Yes religions does instill morals, but not everyone has the same religious beliefs or any at all. Your religion is a personal matter and needs to stay within your own private areas. The home is your area to teach your kids your beliefs. The church is also appropriate because it is a group of people who share similar thoughts.

Government property how ever is the public's as a whole. Writing "Praise almighty 'insert deity'" is inappropriate. The government is supposed to represent all the people, not just the majority. By removing religious statements it does not promote atheism, it shows a neutral view. We should strive for that neutral view and leave religion to the parents or as I feel to the individual.

I will not instill any form of religious belief in my children nor any thoughts on the matter other than to decide for themselves. I will how ever teach them how to be a moral and upstanding member of society.

Religion teaches morals through stories and fear of negative consequences and it works. It is not however the only way.

mothatrucka · Post by **mothatrucka** » Sat May 31, 2008 7:12 pm

project_failure wrote: Religion teaches morals through stories and fear of negative consequences and it works. It is not however the only way.

May not be the only way, but damn, it's the most effective way I've ever seen. Ever stop to think that it's NOT fear of negative consequences, but just plain hoping for something better that drives people to religion? It's hope that drives the religion freaks I know, not fear. You make it sound like they're a bunch of medieval peasants too afraid to do what's right. What a negative spin to put on things.

project_failure · Post by **project_failure** » Sat May 31, 2008 7:16 pm

mothatrucka wrote:
project_failure wrote: Religion teaches morals through stories and fear of negative consequences and it works. It is not however the only way.
May not be the only way, but damn, it's the most effective way I've ever seen. Ever stop to think that it's NOT fear of negative consequences, but just plain hoping for something better that drives people to religion? It's hope that drives the religion freaks I know, not fear. You make it sound like they're a bunch of medieval peasants too afraid to do what's right. What a negative spin to put on things.

Sorry didn't want it to sound that way. Hope is always a good thing and a great part of religion.

mothatrucka · Post by **mothatrucka** » Sat May 31, 2008 7:22 pm

S'okay. I just wish more people would be positive in general. Everyone's so quick to jump on the downers of something without looking at the other side. Forgive my aggressive optimism. lol

Post by **Sparkfist** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:31 am

mothatrucka wrote:S'okay. I just wish more people would be positive in general. Everyone's so quick to jump on the downers of something without looking at the other side. Forgive my aggressive optimism. lol

No you're correct. All to often people are quick to point out the problem, but rarely offer a solution. And on the rare occasion that a solution is proposed, it's a very radical one, that few will agree on. It's sadly the way it is now.

I would be better if we had America taught as what it is, land of compromise. Our whole government is set up that way, we really have no need for a house of representatives and the senate, but we do as a compromise for the early states.

People have become so forceful of their ideas we're now a country that's split down the middle with no grey, it's black or white, right or wrong. It's lead to mean divisions between our people. The one we have now is, is it the media or the parents.

I still think that we need to just crack down on parents more then anything else. If their now aware of what's going on in their kids lives, they don't monitor what their kids watch, and they don't make sure the kids know right from wrong and the consequences of wrong, then their not doing their job.

Lets start having parents take time of out their busy schedule to have to attend PTA, school conferences and other things to help get them involved in their kids lives. Cause I'm not for government intervention on families unless it's a rat's hole, most of the time you just need a kick in the rear.

soundwave · Post by **soundwave** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:48 pm

Glad to see my post ignored, as I already covered, parents don't care, walk into your nearest slum (where crime reigns), the families smoke pot together, they watch adult oriented TV/movies together, and they also commit crimes of various sorts together. So forgive me if I miss the part where the parents are supposed to wake up; they are awake, and they straight up don't care.
And believe me when I say it, it is very hard to instill the ability to "care".

And at Sparkfist, isn't the "black and white" of crime and punishment just as relevant, if not more so, in western religion? If you screw up, you go to Hell; if you are good, you go to Heaven. Isn't it one of the reasons Church is [supposed to be] separated from State, that in a criminal justice system there's more distinction between misdemeanors high crimes, and the gray area in between? Its true that America is a land of black and white, it'd be ignorant to think different, but equally ignorant to then assume church and state are really separate in this country.