Alternate fuel, and a cheap machine that can use it.

[Kurt_]

Walk/Bike.

[bicostp]

No, here's what you do.

1. Buy a Geo Metro, a second-gen Saturn, a Neon, a Civic, or an Escort. (Preferably a 5 speed if you can handle it.)
2. Do all the regular maintenance stuff to the engine. (Replace the belts and hoses, new spark plugs, plug wires, battery cables, flush and refill the cooling system, and change all the fluids. Make sure the spark plugs are gapped properly.
3. Rip out the headliner, back seat, carpeting, soundproofing, spare tire and tire changing equipment (ONLY if you have AAA), the back seat window shelf thing, and other junk you don't really need. You could even remove the AC compressor and condenser if you can have the system discharged properly. (Less weight = more MPG)
4. (Optional) Replace the wheels with lighter ones.
5. Do a full wash and wax, including Rain-X.
6. When you drive, use the highest practical gear and spam the clutch. You should be able to get over 40 MPG fairly easily. (50 if it's a diesel car.)



Caution! Big rant you can ignore ahead! Detour next exit! Weigh station - 1 mile!

TLDR version: People who drive big trucks as daily drivers suck, cars don't get the kind of mileage they could with different gears, our 34 year odl beater pickup gets 1 MPG less than its V6 decedent despite all those years of technological advancement, hybrids are bullfeces, and I get 37 MPG wiht my 9 year old GM economy car.

Back in the 70s, nobody cared about mileage, so we got big, heavy, powerful land yachts. Now that gas costs so bloody much, people try to "be green" (which is BS terminology I really hate; green is a COLOR, dammit!), we have big, heavy, powerful land yachts. Wait, what? We have a 1947 Dodge pickup in the yard with a 3.7L slant-6, and while it was on the road 20 years ago it only got 13 MPG thanks to its really low gearing and some engine problems. Now, 34 years later, its decedent (a 2008 Ram with a V6) only gets 14/19 MPG. Shouldn't three decades' worth of technological advancement mean more economical vehicles? (Actually, 5 decades. That engine was originally designed back in the 1950s.)

Even small cars don't get the kind of mileage they could, mainly because of the way they're geared. The new Ford Focus, for example, is only rated at 24 MPG city because first and second gears are so low. 24 MPG, with a 2L 4 cylinder engine. What the hell?! Our Accord gets that, and it's a much larger car with a 3L V6! The Mitsubishi Lancer gets 22 and 28, I think. All-wheel-drive on a street car is a waste of time. Usually those cars never even see a speck of actual dirt.

SUVs are the biggest waste ever. They're the new minivans, only more boxy and thirsty. My neighbor bought a 10' speedboat. (They're in debt up to their eyeballs, and sending debt payments out every day, but who cares? They have a BOAT!) To go with it, they bought a new V8 4x4 Tahoe, because the 5 year old V8 4x4 Tahoe they had wasn't powerful enough, or it didn't look as cool at the boat ramp, or something. Anyway, what do they use it for 98% of the time? A commuter car! (The other 2% is a 50/50 split between moving the boat around and driving to the car wash.) Don't even get me started on "crossover" vehicles; they're just boxy station wagons.

Hybrids? A waste of time. I'll pick on the Prius, because it's the latest fashion accessory for "going green" and I see a whole ton of those ugly things around. Sure they get a whole 10 MPG more than my 9 year old domestic econobox, but my car didn't require 400 pounds of nickel to be strip mined from the earth. And what happens in 6 years when the batteries are down to half their original capacity? That pussy 1.5L gas engine will have to work harder to pull the dead weight of the batteries. And when the batteries completely die? Time to get new ones, or sell the car off cheap. I've seen it happen with some older ones.

The problem with biodeisels is that organic oils start to congeal at higher temperatures than fossil oil, so it has to be kept warm, and it's useless in cold weather. Plus, unless you go through the mess and trouble of refining it, I don't think that stuff can start an engine. And if used vegetable oil catches on as fuel, won't people start charging for it? Sure, processed biodeisel only costs about $1.50 a gallon to make (including the cost of the equipment), but that relies on the oil being free.

Hydrogen? No thanks, I'd rather have a tank full of semi-volatile liquid under me than a highly pressurized bomb, thankyouverymuch. Also, what happens to the 'water vapor' that comes out the tailpipe when it gets below freezing outside?

The holy grail of alternative fuels is a substance that can utilize today's infrastructure and run in normal internal combustion engines with little or no modification. My money is on ethanol, since switchgrass is native to this country, it grows just about anywhere, and the ethanol return on it is substantially more than what it takes to produce it (mostly because it needs relatively little processing compared to corn). The only thing is, it gets worse mileage than gasoline does. I don't see a problem with that. Why not? Well, let's say ethanol only gets 1/2 the mileage of gasoline, but it only costs 1/3 as much. The same amount of ethanol to get you the same distance as gasoline will still be 1/3 the price cheaper than straight gasoline.

EDIT: Ethanol shouldn't up the price of food, considering that switchgrass produces more ethanol per acre than corn does, it can be genetically modified to produce even more without worrying about it being safe for consumption, and it can probably grow in places that food crops cannot.

The only problem is that most engines don't have the sensors necessary to detect ethanol content in the gas and therefore the computer can't calibrate the engine effectively. Some cars can't even start on straight ethanol just for this reason. (However, thanks to its carburated, not-computerized-in-any-way engine, that old pickup of ours shouldn't have a problem. Go figure.)

I'll stick with my dinosaur-burning, 9 year old, 37 MPG domestic economy car. (It's fun to legitimately claim it's a 'green' car. It seriously is. 1999 GM Hunter Green, to be exact. It's about #0C2805.)

EDIT:

Wait, I lied. The true holy grail of alternative fuels is a car that runs on pollution and spits out gasoline. Replace half the cars on the road with them, and we'll be all set.

[Dr. KillGood]

HOLY CRAP THIS IS AWESOME!

http://hytechapps.com/company/contact?c ... 0Requested

Then...

Purchasing Vehicle System (not available yet)

[Neildo_64]

I make and use hydrogen. I don't have a vehicle running on it yet, but the only reason is lack of time. Water for fuel roxxors.

[Triton]

E85 as they are currently producing it is stupid but saying that it is going to wreck the food supply is equally stupid, right now the common method is to distill it out of corn, feed grade corn so the price of that has gone up but there are literally DOZENS of other methods to get it that actually yield more alcahol per ton of raw material but would be cheaper to do, switchgrass for example.

and i agree completly on the hybrid car thing, they are stupid useless things that have no benefit over a regular economic internal combustion car. hybrid cars are heavier, have batteries that arent environmentally friendly, and cost too much for no real gains. a prius hybrid will average around 45mpg while a 1-1.3 liter 5 speed geo metro will average 42-48mpg depending on driving habits!

[vskid]

Natural gas. It's cheap, plentiful and can run in a internal combustion engine with little or no modifications. The only draw back you will have is that there is not a perfected way to use natural gas in cars, namely storage.

If you can get the storage of natural gas issue solved, you have a clean burning vehicle that will likely get better mileage then it would on gasoline.

Here in Utah, cng (compressed natural gas) is 64 cents per gallon equivalent, the cheapest in the US. Within the next month, we're getting our Yukon XL (7 in my family, minivan doesn't work, had one before Yukon and it got the same mileage in city) converted to cng. It'll cost about $7500 and have about 12 gallons of cng capacity and the gas tank will remain (it switches to gas when cng runs out). Mileage stays about the same, power is about the same too. It'll cost us less to drive our Yukon XL than our Civic. The Civic will probably get replaced by a cng Cavalier if we can find a decent deal on one. Until then, we'll laugh at the suckers that paid the same amount for a Prius as our Yukon plus the conversion, and we'll still be saving money on fuel.
Plus, natural gas is a utility, so the price can't go up unless the state government says so. The price of cng in Utah has even gone down, it was about 74 cents a gallon last year. So if you live in Utah, I'd suggest looking into cng (or moving here and looking into cng). My friend's family doesn't even have any dedicated gas cars anymore, they have 1 or 2 cng Cavaliers and a cng full size Chevy van (most cng cars are bi-fuel and still have a gas tank, since cng stations aren't super common).

[Dr. KillGood]

I want a water powered car so bad.

I wonder how much that conversion kit is going to cost. >_<

[Sparkfist]

Well you know how the economy works. People think there is a problem, the people on the floor of the stock market will make it one.

E85 being produced with corn was done from a simple economical reason. To grow corn you need farmers, and so this was a way to get more farmers working. The problem is as Ben, Bic and Triton have stated is that the ethanol output of distilling corn is not as high as switch grass, and the resources needed to grown corn are greater as well.

The whole idea of E85 to the end consumer is, drop the price of gas so you can spend the money on other things, maybe the economy. However there is the problem, this whole idea is taken from Brazil, they have sugar cane that they can use to distill from, and they are at a warmer climate so they don't have the issues of ethanol not igniting under certain temperatures.

It's a nice idea but as with any government program, poorly executed.

[nightwheel]

There is a such thing as a Compressed Air Power Car

[Triton]

The only problem is that most engines don't have the sensors necessary to detect ethanol content in the gas and therefore the computer can't calibrate the engine effectively. Some cars can't even start on straight ethanol just for this reason. (However, thanks to its carburated, not-computerized-in-any-way engine, that old pickup of ours shouldn't have a problem. Go figure.)

The thing is, its pretty straightforward to convert almost any car to use E85, the only concerns are its tendancy to eat away at rubber fuel lines and dry out seals because of its high alcahol content but other than that basically all you have to do is get bigger fuel injectors and a few other things HERE is a very good guide with tons of information on it

[Jongamer]

There is a such thing as a Compressed Air Power Car

yep, they just need to work on a way so it can be perpetual motion. I believe Air, will be the future fuel. That or Steam.

[Kurt_]

Steam + Nuclear Fission FTW.

Converting your car to hydrogen costs more than you will save from the actual benefits of being able to produce hydrogen for basically free over the lifetime of the car.

[Gordon1]

Natural gas. It's cheap, plentiful and can run in a internal combustion engine with little or no modifications. The only draw back you will have is that there is not a perfected way to use natural gas in cars, namely storage.

If you can get the storage of natural gas issue solved, you have a clean burning vehicle that will likely get better mileage then it would on gasoline.

Here in Utah, cng (compressed natural gas) is 64 cents per gallon equivalent, the cheapest in the US. Within the next month, we're getting our Yukon XL (7 in my family, minivan doesn't work, had one before Yukon and it got the same mileage in city) converted to cng. It'll cost about $7500 and have about 12 gallons of cng capacity and the gas tank will remain (it switches to gas when cng runs out). Mileage stays about the same, power is about the same too. It'll cost us less to drive our Yukon XL than our Civic. The Civic will probably get replaced by a cng Cavalier if we can find a decent deal on one. Until then, we'll laugh at the suckers that paid the same amount for a Prius as our Yukon plus the conversion, and we'll still be saving money on fuel.
Plus, natural gas is a utility, so the price can't go up unless the state government says so. The price of cng in Utah has even gone down, it was about 74 cents a gallon last year. So if you live in Utah, I'd suggest looking into cng (or moving here and looking into cng). My friend's family doesn't even have any dedicated gas cars anymore, they have 1 or 2 cng Cavaliers and a cng full size Chevy van (most cng cars are bi-fuel and still have a gas tank, since cng stations aren't super common).

BINGO!!!!

Since Dr. Killgood wants to be able to fill or make his fuel at home natural gas would be the best way to go. You can just hook it up to your existing natural gas system in your house over night and it fills it up and automatically shuts off. Granted you need to buy an compressor to compress the natural gas to 3600psi.

You Americans really need to stop b!tching about gas prices, In Alberta, Canada (the place that supplies most of America with oil) we are paying $1.20 a liter. SO that is the equivalent of $4.54 for an American gallon, so ..... SHUT UP.

Ok so now that that is out of my system I will talk about E85. Today in science we got into a discussion about fuels made from wheat, corn, soy, and canola. And someone said that it takes more energy to create it than what it was giving us, and it does not have to. Yes they do but guess what, they are renewable!!!! The only noticeable thing that this system has yielded is a higher price in wheat; $5 a bushel to $13 in only 1 year. which is good, because in 2004 wheat was only $3 a bushel which means bad news for farmers! Also, the wheat that has been genetically modified to produce more grain of a lesser quality..... yeah! I would elaborate on this but I don't really feel like it, and yes I do come from a farming background so I can back up what I say here.

Electric cars: Hell yeah, they are the bomb. If you do it right, you would use lead acids (WHICH CAN BE RECYCLED) they would last for at least 5 years. So if you are building a 360v DC system (30 batteries) it would cost you roughly $2000 every 5 or so years. This expense can be viewed as you Maintenance costs you had on your gasoline engine (all your oils (engine, tranny, dif) coolant, etc) Lets use an oil chance for example; oil $25 filter $5 so there is $30. Over the course of 6 years thats about 30 oil changes alone TOTAL: About $1000 right there. and that is only one aspect of the internal combustion engine that needs changing.

Another sweet aspect of driving an EV is when you get to work you can just suck off the power supplied at the parking stall (for a block heater). or you can have a little solar charging station in your house!

[Dr. KillGood]

I like the water powered car idea best, you can get that stuff anywhere and they don't charge you for it!

Or right from the sink for like 5 cents a gallon.

[Rekarp]

I like the water powered car idea best, you can get that stuff anywhere and they don't charge you for it!

Or right from the sink for like 5 cents a gallon.

/puts Engineering hat on

Ok where is all the energy in water? When a Chemist can show that he can get a positive energy output from WATER then I will believe cars can one day run on WATER.

The reason cars run on Hydrocarbons (fancy word for oil) is because of the amount of energy that is stored in them. There energy density is HUGE. Water has zero energy density. Why do you think there is so much water on this planet? Because water is the easiest molecular bond Hydrogen and Oxygen can make. Thus it has the lowest energy. So there is NO way you can run a car on WATER alone. If you have ever done electrolysis (splitting the H and O) it takes a load of energy to split them.

OK E85 IS WORTHLESS. You burn 10-20% more fuel burning E85 then straight gas alone. Plus E85 doesn't burn as clean. Also all the food that should be going to Africa is being diverted into USELESS fuel.

So what about Hybrids? Hybrids are the bridge between Pure electric and internal combustion engines. Problem with hybrids is you are hauling two engines around. Sure you have a better MPG then straight gasoline but it isn't a long term solution.

So what is the solution you say? Light Electric cars. Cars don't need electric windows, locks, 10 disc CD changers, motorized seating, moon roof. Lighter is better. Using a polycarbonate instead of glass would save at least 200 lbs on some cars. Also I HATE these cars with "crumple" zones. They should be called "you tap a car and have to spend $3000 for a new front end zone". I know this goes against being "Light" but can cars be built like the late 60's with an electric motor? A 67' Mustang is no more heavier then a Hybrid so I see why not.

What kind of car do I drive? A 99' Jeep Wrangler. Sure its heavy and only gets 14MPG but guess what I don't drive it around town! I actually use it for its intended purpose, offroading. To get around I have a road bike and a decent public bus system.