Dang, you're just ripping right through this! You won't have to relocate that cartridge slot, will you?
When removing the controller port pins, is there a reason you just cut them down? I prefer to remove stuff completely, so I would have just desoldered them.
Anyway, this is great! Keep posting, it's fun to follow!
Bacteria's Multi-Console System: Screen+Case+N64 - FINISHED
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bacteria
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Tibia - Yes, I am definitely relocating the cart slot, I don't like carts sticking vertically out of a system, I like them flush. Progress is fast, yes, I just ran out of time today.
Yes, I cut down the controller port pins as sometimes when I desolder pins the whole of the contact from the trace gets lifted from the board; this way, there is no chance of that happening. Also, keeping part of the pins left means you have far better solder points to work with.
Kyo - Please elaborate, I am not sure what you mean; let me know and I will reply!
Yes, I cut down the controller port pins as sometimes when I desolder pins the whole of the contact from the trace gets lifted from the board; this way, there is no chance of that happening. Also, keeping part of the pins left means you have far better solder points to work with.
Kyo - Please elaborate, I am not sure what you mean; let me know and I will reply!
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bacteria
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Had an hour today, so did some more work.
This is the hard part of the project: relocating the memory - expansion pack. This is very fiddly. I spent time looking at old postings on this forum on this subject (nothing concrete as such) and took one apart from my old dead mobo. The pins are really tiny and very very hard to solder to as they are about .5 mm apart or so.
I decided the best plan was to remove the ground side (nearest the LED) and leave the side intact with all the pins inside, nicely sandwiched in plastic to keep the contacts away from each other. Most of the pins seem to be ground or connected to each other, so I only need to solder to the pins I need to (at least that is the theory!).
Anyway:
Lift up the metal from both sides with small screwdriver
You need to break off this part of the metal with a screwdriver to release the shielding
And then lift off with pliers. This breaks the shielding off the mobo
Leaving the plastic plug
Using a circle cutter, I need to slice through the bottom bit (grounding part of expansion pack connections), being VERY careful not to go through to the pins
Done
Using pliers to gently remove the excess plastic
Time to use a different drill bit to grind down the plastic so I can get to the pins
Done. I lost one pin in the process, however that is fine, and it isn't one I need to solder to
Open up an expansion pack and remove the mobo
This is in reverse - the expansion pack gets soldered to the other side, this is for illustration!
I believe, after spending a while last night with my multimeter, that these are the only pins you need to connect to; many of the others (bottom row especially) connect to each other, and many of these are ground
Anyway, next stage is to wire it up, and hopefully not fry the thing (there is a good chance of this, or killing the system at this stage (I have about another 4 x N64's if I need them)!).
This is the hard part of the project: relocating the memory - expansion pack. This is very fiddly. I spent time looking at old postings on this forum on this subject (nothing concrete as such) and took one apart from my old dead mobo. The pins are really tiny and very very hard to solder to as they are about .5 mm apart or so.
I decided the best plan was to remove the ground side (nearest the LED) and leave the side intact with all the pins inside, nicely sandwiched in plastic to keep the contacts away from each other. Most of the pins seem to be ground or connected to each other, so I only need to solder to the pins I need to (at least that is the theory!).
Anyway:
Lift up the metal from both sides with small screwdriver
You need to break off this part of the metal with a screwdriver to release the shielding
And then lift off with pliers. This breaks the shielding off the mobo
Leaving the plastic plug
Using a circle cutter, I need to slice through the bottom bit (grounding part of expansion pack connections), being VERY careful not to go through to the pins
Done
Using pliers to gently remove the excess plastic
Time to use a different drill bit to grind down the plastic so I can get to the pins
Done. I lost one pin in the process, however that is fine, and it isn't one I need to solder to
Open up an expansion pack and remove the mobo
This is in reverse - the expansion pack gets soldered to the other side, this is for illustration!
I believe, after spending a while last night with my multimeter, that these are the only pins you need to connect to; many of the others (bottom row especially) connect to each other, and many of these are ground
Anyway, next stage is to wire it up, and hopefully not fry the thing (there is a good chance of this, or killing the system at this stage (I have about another 4 x N64's if I need them)!).
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bacteria
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This is the expansion pack against the plug, the right way around:
I flattened the leads on the LED, Dremelled a small recess in the mobo, and then pressed the LED flat against the mobo.
To lift the pins individually from the plug, I used an opened safety pin. The idea is to lift the metal off its plastic holder enough to be able to solder a wire to it.
The enpansion pack is hot glued on top of thin card, to keep it insulated from the N64 mobo, and then hot glued in place so the expansion pack is in place.
The first three wires are soldered in place. I used really thin IDE cable wire, single strand.
By the looks of it, pin 36 isn't connected to the plug. I was aware that there are 36 pins in the plug but actually only 35 traces on the expansion pack, I think the one is pin 36. I came to this conclusion by looking at the pattern from the bottom row (with 18 pins) and how they relate to the top row of pins.
Anyway, time will tell. When I turn the system on it might all work nicely or something might fry or the system fails to boot, or dies. No idea which scenario will pan out yet.
Applied some flux from a flux pen and then tinned the traces on the expansion pack, I then checked that my soldering didn't migrate to the next trace (it didn't). First three wires in place in pic, that is the bottom row done (I think so anyway, the other wires are ground connections mostly), I have the top row to do yet; I probably won't do this until tomorrow as I am very tired after coming off night shift, and off to bed now.
I flattened the leads on the LED, Dremelled a small recess in the mobo, and then pressed the LED flat against the mobo.
To lift the pins individually from the plug, I used an opened safety pin. The idea is to lift the metal off its plastic holder enough to be able to solder a wire to it.
The enpansion pack is hot glued on top of thin card, to keep it insulated from the N64 mobo, and then hot glued in place so the expansion pack is in place.
The first three wires are soldered in place. I used really thin IDE cable wire, single strand.
By the looks of it, pin 36 isn't connected to the plug. I was aware that there are 36 pins in the plug but actually only 35 traces on the expansion pack, I think the one is pin 36. I came to this conclusion by looking at the pattern from the bottom row (with 18 pins) and how they relate to the top row of pins.
Anyway, time will tell. When I turn the system on it might all work nicely or something might fry or the system fails to boot, or dies. No idea which scenario will pan out yet.
Applied some flux from a flux pen and then tinned the traces on the expansion pack, I then checked that my soldering didn't migrate to the next trace (it didn't). First three wires in place in pic, that is the bottom row done (I think so anyway, the other wires are ground connections mostly), I have the top row to do yet; I probably won't do this until tomorrow as I am very tired after coming off night shift, and off to bed now.
Ah yes, the pin 36 trap. There is one pin on the far side of the board (forget which side) that gets shorted to the pin beside it upon insertion of the expansion pack, presumably to tell the system whether it is present or not.
Actually, look at your first picture, the two pins on the far outside, either side. the one on the right is bigger, thats the one. It makes contact with two of the pins inside the connector. Anyways, it looks like you have everything lined up.
Also, I dont know if I would recommend leaving out all of those wires. Motherboard manufacturers put the RAM right beside the CPU for a reason, mostly timing and noise concerns. Using individually strands of wire already sketches me out a little, the point of having a ground wire every second pin is to provide some insulation from crosstalk.
Actually, look at your first picture, the two pins on the far outside, either side. the one on the right is bigger, thats the one. It makes contact with two of the pins inside the connector. Anyways, it looks like you have everything lined up.
Also, I dont know if I would recommend leaving out all of those wires. Motherboard manufacturers put the RAM right beside the CPU for a reason, mostly timing and noise concerns. Using individually strands of wire already sketches me out a little, the point of having a ground wire every second pin is to provide some insulation from crosstalk.
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bacteria
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timmeh87 - Thanks for the advice, I was hoping for enlightenment! Yes, it is pin 1 not pin 36 (pin 1 is the right hand side). Good thing you mentioned those two pins need connecting together, I wouldn't have done it initially , although I probably might have thought about it on troubleshooting.
I am using wires of virtually the same size and hoping that I can get it working with the "minimal wiring approach"; if it doesn't work I will wire up all the wires; however most of them are ground, and also next to each other instead of being alternately positioned (wonders why?).
Nothing apart from a few hours and a cheap N64 mobo to lose I suppose!!
I am using wires of virtually the same size and hoping that I can get it working with the "minimal wiring approach"; if it doesn't work I will wire up all the wires; however most of them are ground, and also next to each other instead of being alternately positioned (wonders why?).
Nothing apart from a few hours and a cheap N64 mobo to lose I suppose!!
The reason for multiple power/ground lines on these high-density chips is because the chip uses so much power that it would exceed the maximum rating for a single trace or pin. Think about how hot it gets. Modern Intel chips have 775 or so pins, about half of them are power or ground. They can draw something like 75A @ 1.2v.
They interleave the ground pins with the data lines as a 'good engineering practice' to electromagnetically insulate the data pins from each other. The expectation is that you will run all the traces out on a bus to take advantage of this.
They interleave the ground pins with the data lines as a 'good engineering practice' to electromagnetically insulate the data pins from each other. The expectation is that you will run all the traces out on a bus to take advantage of this.
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bacteria
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timmeh87 - Thanks for the advice, I was hoping for enlightenment! Yes, it is pin 1 not pin 36 (pin 1 is the right hand side). Good thing you mentioned those two pins need connecting together, I wouldn't have done it initially , although I probably might have thought about it on troubleshooting.
I am using wires of virtually the same size and hoping that I can get it working with the "minimal wiring approach"; if it doesn't work I will wire up all the wires; however most of them are ground, and also next to each other instead of being alternately positioned (wonders why?).
Nothing apart from a few hours and a cheap N64 mobo to lose I suppose!!
I am using wires of virtually the same size and hoping that I can get it working with the "minimal wiring approach"; if it doesn't work I will wire up all the wires; however most of them are ground, and also next to each other instead of being alternately positioned (wonders why?).
Nothing apart from a few hours and a cheap N64 mobo to lose I suppose!!
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bacteria
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I finished the wiring after about 2 hours soldering work and tried to get it to work 
however, the N64 LED was on but I didn't get any video. 
Aargh!
I can't see anything wrong with what I have done, however now of course I don't have a way to use the memory port as it is destroyed, and for that matter the expansion pack has solder on the traces so probably isn't that usable now either.
What I will need to do is my "Plan B" - I was hoping to have the expansion pack inside the casing laying flat, this isn't going to happen. What I will have to do is have the expansion pack sticking out of the perspex, however this isn't a problem as it will be inside the construction for the cart slot; it will however mean the assembly will be a bit bigger to hold the cart slot now; although it won't have an impact on the thickness of the case itself. Not much of a compromise really, quite livable - I had this scenario in mind when I first designed the case anyway as I wasn't confident that I could relocate the memory pack.
There is no issue with air flow, the air intake will be around the cart slot and flow under the case over the heatsinks and the air sucked out by a 40mm fan from a graphics card (more on this later).
What this does mean however is that I need to ditch the old N64 mobo and hack apart a new one from scratch - a couple of hours work at most. I won't destroy my non-working mobo, so if someone knows how to get the thing working I can still try it out.
Fortunately, these N64's are cheap - the one I am about to rip apart only cost £4 and it came with lots of controllers and a game too in the bargain! I know it works, I played Silicon Valley a couple of days ago - weird game but rather fun!
Anyway, N64 version 2, tine to go under the Dremel! ...
Actually, let's time it to see how long it takes to get to this point again, just for fun... on your marks, get set, GO!
.....
UPDATE - 45 minutes is the answer. I was working quickly. I then spent a few minutes testing the system and locating the Start button on the controller, as in the original controller it was located on a daughter board with slo-mo, etc (which I don't want). I soldered a wire to the right place (orange arrow).
To speed up the process, I decided to snip off the on/off power switch casing legs and (carefully) dremel off the switch legs, one side, then most way through the other and then bending the switch casing back and forth until it broke off; I then soldered the permanent contact wires in place to the front of the board rather than the back (see red circle below).
Time for the next stages (in order):
* Heat sinks
* Remove cart slot to relocate it later
* Re-wire the small mobo from the old N64 cart (for the universal plug) as I had the wiring the wrong way around before
* Cut a base for the system case out of perspex. Cut bits from the perspex to enable the N64 mobo to sit even lower
* Hot glue the N64 mobo in place and wire from the universal adapter to the N64 mobo
* Relocate a memory card via separate wires on the N64 controller and wire up a battery for the memory card
* Wire from the universal adapter to the N64 controller
* Make the top and sides of the casing
* Wire up the relocated cart slot around the expansion pack
* Incorporate a 40mm fan for air extraction
Let's make a start then:
however, the N64 LED was on but I didn't get any video. Aargh!I can't see anything wrong with what I have done, however now of course I don't have a way to use the memory port as it is destroyed, and for that matter the expansion pack has solder on the traces so probably isn't that usable now either.
What I will need to do is my "Plan B" - I was hoping to have the expansion pack inside the casing laying flat, this isn't going to happen. What I will have to do is have the expansion pack sticking out of the perspex, however this isn't a problem as it will be inside the construction for the cart slot; it will however mean the assembly will be a bit bigger to hold the cart slot now; although it won't have an impact on the thickness of the case itself. Not much of a compromise really, quite livable - I had this scenario in mind when I first designed the case anyway as I wasn't confident that I could relocate the memory pack.
There is no issue with air flow, the air intake will be around the cart slot and flow under the case over the heatsinks and the air sucked out by a 40mm fan from a graphics card (more on this later).
What this does mean however is that I need to ditch the old N64 mobo and hack apart a new one from scratch - a couple of hours work at most. I won't destroy my non-working mobo, so if someone knows how to get the thing working I can still try it out.
Fortunately, these N64's are cheap - the one I am about to rip apart only cost £4 and it came with lots of controllers and a game too in the bargain! I know it works, I played Silicon Valley a couple of days ago - weird game but rather fun!
Anyway, N64 version 2, tine to go under the Dremel! ...
Actually, let's time it to see how long it takes to get to this point again, just for fun... on your marks, get set, GO!
.....
UPDATE - 45 minutes is the answer. I was working quickly. I then spent a few minutes testing the system and locating the Start button on the controller, as in the original controller it was located on a daughter board with slo-mo, etc (which I don't want). I soldered a wire to the right place (orange arrow).
To speed up the process, I decided to snip off the on/off power switch casing legs and (carefully) dremel off the switch legs, one side, then most way through the other and then bending the switch casing back and forth until it broke off; I then soldered the permanent contact wires in place to the front of the board rather than the back (see red circle below).
Time for the next stages (in order):
* Heat sinks
* Remove cart slot to relocate it later
* Re-wire the small mobo from the old N64 cart (for the universal plug) as I had the wiring the wrong way around before
* Cut a base for the system case out of perspex. Cut bits from the perspex to enable the N64 mobo to sit even lower
* Hot glue the N64 mobo in place and wire from the universal adapter to the N64 mobo
* Relocate a memory card via separate wires on the N64 controller and wire up a battery for the memory card
* Wire from the universal adapter to the N64 controller
* Make the top and sides of the casing
* Wire up the relocated cart slot around the expansion pack
* Incorporate a 40mm fan for air extraction
Let's make a start then:
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bacteria
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* Audio and video *
Red = RGB red
Green = RGB green
Blue = RGB blue
Pink = C-Sync
Note - above are fine if you are NTSC or PAL in Australia, not PAL in UK (composite only)
Yellow = composite
Orange = Audio right
Black = Audio left
There are also connections for S-video and 5v line but don't see they are needed, also there are two ground connections, although you can get ground from many places on the board (as I did in the pic, for example).
* Power *
The 7+v line can be 7.2v-12v, the 3 - 3.3v line can be as low as 2.9v and up to about 3.5v is fine. Get a TI step-down regulator to take your 7.2v (or in my case, 7.4v) line into 3.2v, so one power supply provides two sources of voltages for the system (the 7.2v is also used to power the PSone screen too).
Wiring pic for TI card, courtesy of Skyone:
Connected as:
* Heat sinks *
I got thinner heatsinks from Maplin recently - compare these to the old 12mm high ones I used before:
They are a bit short against the CPU's on the N64 mobo, so I gripped a couple of them with strong pliers and Dremelled in three pieces
So I won't get blank areas on the chips uncooled
Hot glued in place along perimeter
Both chips done and the two memory chips too
* Removing cart slot for later relocation *
Turn mobo over
Insert small screwdriver and pry away the grounding metal strip
Until removed, then wiggle the metal piece back and forth until it breaks away. Then do the same for the other side
You need to do this to release the slot
Turn mobo over, the cart slot will lift off with a little persuasion from a medium sized flat screwdriver
Done
Turn mobo over again, and use screwdriver to persuade the back slot to come off
You get left with the pins
Bend the pins over a bin, and wiggle back and forth until the pins break off
Done!
Red = RGB red
Green = RGB green
Blue = RGB blue
Pink = C-Sync
Note - above are fine if you are NTSC or PAL in Australia, not PAL in UK (composite only)
Yellow = composite
Orange = Audio right
Black = Audio left
There are also connections for S-video and 5v line but don't see they are needed, also there are two ground connections, although you can get ground from many places on the board (as I did in the pic, for example).
* Power *
The 7+v line can be 7.2v-12v, the 3 - 3.3v line can be as low as 2.9v and up to about 3.5v is fine. Get a TI step-down regulator to take your 7.2v (or in my case, 7.4v) line into 3.2v, so one power supply provides two sources of voltages for the system (the 7.2v is also used to power the PSone screen too).
Wiring pic for TI card, courtesy of Skyone:
Connected as:
* Heat sinks *
I got thinner heatsinks from Maplin recently - compare these to the old 12mm high ones I used before:
They are a bit short against the CPU's on the N64 mobo, so I gripped a couple of them with strong pliers and Dremelled in three pieces
So I won't get blank areas on the chips uncooled
Hot glued in place along perimeter
Both chips done and the two memory chips too
* Removing cart slot for later relocation *
Turn mobo over
Insert small screwdriver and pry away the grounding metal strip
Until removed, then wiggle the metal piece back and forth until it breaks away. Then do the same for the other side
You need to do this to release the slot
Turn mobo over, the cart slot will lift off with a little persuasion from a medium sized flat screwdriver
Done
Turn mobo over again, and use screwdriver to persuade the back slot to come off
You get left with the pins
Bend the pins over a bin, and wiggle back and forth until the pins break off
Done!
Why did you give up so easily when it didn't work the first time?! I was able to relocate mine with some careful soldering (i did ruin one expansion pack though) Just make sure you solder to all the ground pins at timmeh said, and make sure you account for the pin that doesn't have it's own connector...it's worth it, it saves a good 3/4 of an inch at least!
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"Say, what does this button do?"
All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive
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bacteria
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I will solder to all ground pins tomorrow and re-test, although I don't hold much hope. The fiddly soldering was not fun! I will solder wires for the ground together and connect to the ground of the N64 mobo and see if that helps.
Due to my design, it will not be much of an issue if I continue to resort to "Plan B"; it isn't like I will have a card sticking out of the top (it would be part of the game cart section - the N64 cart slot is slightly thicker than a game cart). It won't be visible. I would however like to get the expansion pack working horizontally as it would be the icing on the cake.
UPDATE
Tried it, N64 still didn't work. Oh well, never mind. Plan B then, I really can't see why it didn't work, and it wasn't fun working with such tiny soldering, so I will carry on with my v2 model. I'm not bothered with losing the N64 mobo, but it was a shame about the expansion pack. What I will do though is try to remove all the solder from the trace pins and see if the pack still works ok.
Due to my design, it will not be much of an issue if I continue to resort to "Plan B"; it isn't like I will have a card sticking out of the top (it would be part of the game cart section - the N64 cart slot is slightly thicker than a game cart). It won't be visible. I would however like to get the expansion pack working horizontally as it would be the icing on the cake.
UPDATE
Tried it, N64 still didn't work. Oh well, never mind. Plan B then, I really can't see why it didn't work, and it wasn't fun working with such tiny soldering, so I will carry on with my v2 model. I'm not bothered with losing the N64 mobo, but it was a shame about the expansion pack. What I will do though is try to remove all the solder from the trace pins and see if the pack still works ok.
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bacteria
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Time to cut out the system base from perspex. Usual method I use:
I) Use CD marker pen (permanent) to draw out areas to cut out and trim
II) Use drill bit on Dremel to cut close to each line, but not over it
III) Use 12mm circular sanding attachment on Dremel to sand down the perspex quite straight
IV) Drill side cutter / drill bit on Dremel to do the corners of the holes
V) Sanding block to smooth the edges nicely.
These are my tools, I tend to find my two speed Dremel fine - 15,000 RPM for everything apart from cutting metal or through mobos when I use 30,000 RPM:
Plastic base:
On system, before slotting in place:
After slotting in place:
I can now hot glue the mobo in place; however before I do this, one more trick I need to do to help keeping the overall height minimal - this means cutting through the perspex base for each solder pin on the N64 mobo, and cutting grooves where the SMD capacitors are on the N64 mobo. Why do I need to do this you ask? Two reasons - the universal cart slot which connects the two systems together is barely above the end of the N64 mobo so by lowering the mobo it will give space for the wires; reason two is to keep the innards as slim as possible.
Problem:
Solved it:
Final height:
I) Use CD marker pen (permanent) to draw out areas to cut out and trim
II) Use drill bit on Dremel to cut close to each line, but not over it
III) Use 12mm circular sanding attachment on Dremel to sand down the perspex quite straight
IV) Drill side cutter / drill bit on Dremel to do the corners of the holes
V) Sanding block to smooth the edges nicely.
These are my tools, I tend to find my two speed Dremel fine - 15,000 RPM for everything apart from cutting metal or through mobos when I use 30,000 RPM:
Plastic base:
On system, before slotting in place:
After slotting in place:
I can now hot glue the mobo in place; however before I do this, one more trick I need to do to help keeping the overall height minimal - this means cutting through the perspex base for each solder pin on the N64 mobo, and cutting grooves where the SMD capacitors are on the N64 mobo. Why do I need to do this you ask? Two reasons - the universal cart slot which connects the two systems together is barely above the end of the N64 mobo so by lowering the mobo it will give space for the wires; reason two is to keep the innards as slim as possible.
Problem:
Solved it:
Final height: