strange SNES >> NTSC >> second LockOutChip

maddox · Post by **maddox** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:04 am

Hi,

today I bought a NTSC Super Nintendo on a local swapmeet.
At home I riped away the case to look at the PCB an found strange things.
There is a second (D411) LockOutChip soldered in and some strange wires to a possible audiojack.

Has anyone a idea what this means ?

Aaahh I couldnt test the SNES cause my PAL Transformator doesn't fit to the DC-Jack of the NTSC SNES.

EDIT : The possible audiojack is no audiojack, it is a broken switch.

Here a some pictures :

Kyo · Post by **Kyo** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:22 am

obviously somebody soldered a second PAL lockout chip to it, to make it compatible with all games.

The cables on the two middle chips are a 50/60 Hz switch, and the other two cables on the other chip on the side, I have no idea.

Well, you obviously got a modded one, and a NICELY modded one too. Your SNES should be compatible to all SNES games. (from all regions)

The power cord problem, been there. I just ordered a second US-SNES from ebay which INCLUDED a power cord

maddox · Post by **maddox** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:33 am

Nope, the PAL chip is "D413" the "external" chip is a "D411" to.

The second chip makes no sense to me, if you just disable the original lockoutchip (Pin 4) u can play PAL & NTSC games.

Yep, this must be a 50/60Hz switch, i found some pictures on the web.
I think the other 2 wires are for power/GND to make the 50/60Hz work.

The powerproblem is not a real problem, im just to lazy to rip away another SNES/NES powersupply now.

Kyo · Post by **Kyo** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:56 am

Well that's odd. The thing with disabling the lockout chip is that later games will notice this, and refuse to work. soldering on a second lockout chip (of the other region) will fix this, usually with a switch too. Now, since this isn't the case here, obviously I have no idea what this is. Is the original lockout chip harmed in any way? Cause maybe they fried it, and soldered on a replacement lockout chip.

I didn't know there were big non-smd lockout chips too. Where'd they get that?

Kurt_ · Post by **Kurt_** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:59 am

Are all the pins on it used? If not, the slight variation in model number could be insignificant. Since it's unlikely someone sells official Nintendo lockout chips, a similar chip with similar functions (plus or minus a few that aren't connected) wouldn't make a difference.

Kyo · Post by **Kyo** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:02 am

you mean like a custom made chip that tells the cartridge and SNES that everything is in order?

That'd make sense, I suppose. Off to google, I am!

edit: Although it DOES say "Copyright by nintendo" on the chip

could we get a closeup of it please?

maddox · Post by **maddox** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:05 am

There are only 6 wires on the external chip and one bridge.

oxxxxxxxx
D411
xxoB0xxB

o = connected
x = not connected
B = bridge

On the chip stands :

D411
(c) 1990 Nintendo
9103 A

Kyo · Post by **Kyo** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:12 am

why does the chip have 8 legs...
Do carts have SMD chips too? Cause I'm kind of lost here...

edit:
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3930/wtfyu2.png

is it the photo, or does it really look like that?
I mean, that doesn't have anything to do with... anything, I just want to know.

maddox · Post by **maddox** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:30 am

Kyo wrote: http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3930/wtfyu2.png

is it the photo, or does it really look like that?
I mean, that doesn't have anything to do with... anything, I just want to know.

it's not the picture, someone desoldered some legs and then soldered them back again.

EDIT : close up of chip is in my first post

Kyo · Post by **Kyo** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:33 am

Well, maybe they soldered on the chip to... permanentaly send an "ok" sign to the first chip, but that REALLY wouldn't make sense. The only thing different from deactivating the chip that way is that it's more work. I think games like super mario RPG wouldn't work anyway. Not sure about this, but I think so.

Kurt_ · Post by **Kurt_** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:41 pm

Way to google:
Link

3. Lockout Chips

The following information on the SNES chip lockout system was sent
to me by Karel (Karel.Pauwels@village.uunet.be).

SNES Game Cassette Security IC
------------------------------

I noticed a lot of questions on the 'net about the SNES game
cartridge security and country dependent games.
I have seen claims that the only protection is the mechanical
incompatibility, this definitely not true. I happen to have the
SNES service manual from the European and the US version. Both
Control Decks having a security chip in the Deck and a counterpart
in every game cassette. The device are called CIC. The operation is
as follows:

* The CIC (F413 for the European PAL version or the F411 for the
NTSC version) is connected to main unit reset.
* The reset signal (reset) from F413 (F411) to S-PPU2 is set low
and places the S-PPU2 in standby.
* F413 / F411 seeks communication with the CIC (D413 / D411) in the
game cassette. If communication ends successfully then the RESET
is set High to start the S-PPU2. If the communication fails then
the RESET signal remains LOW, disabling the further operation of
the console.

Note: It might be possible that first versions of US control decks
did not use the security device and that the only protection is the
mechanical incompatibility but there is no record of that in the
service manual (rev. 06.92). (Please note, I don't think that
happened either. If anyone can prove this definitively, please let
me know.)

------------
------------------- | RESET |
| | SWITCH |
Game Cassette | ------------ SNES/SFC Hardware
| |
| v
| ---------------
--------------- | | U8 | RESET -----------
| CIC |<D413> | U3 |
| D413 (PAL) |------->| D411 (NTSC) | | S-PPU2 |
| D411 (NTSC) | | --------------- -----------
--------------- | |
^ | v
| | --------------
| | | |
----------------| S-CLK |
| | |
| --------------
-------------------

The communication between the cassette and the deck is done over four
wires. It uses the edge connector pin 24, 55, 25 and 56. The CIC in
the cassette is connected to the power supply but has no other
connections to the internal cassette circuitry. It is very likely
that the security device in the console can be disabled by connecting
the reset directly to the S-PPU2 the F413 (U8 ) output pin 10 is the
RESET output to pin 34 from the S-PPU2 (U3).
An alternative could be, placing a US-CIC between a US deck and a
European cassette on a extension card (or vice versa.)

Kyo · Post by **Kyo** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:26 pm

I actually found that, but I didn't read it all, cause I thought it was not what I was searching for.

maddox · Post by **maddox** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:20 pm

found that also, but doesn't say anything about a second lockoutchip ...

Kyo · Post by **Kyo** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:13 pm

A-hah! I solved the mistery of the second lockout chips origin!

SNES/SFC NTSC region IC, 16pin
Â£5

or 5 for Â£15

Used in game cartridges and backup devices to match the NTSC lockout chip IC within NTSC consoles.

http://www.robwebb.clara.co.uk/shop/copiers/copiers.htm

Kurt_ · Post by **Kurt_** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:00 pm

Pretty sure that's what I said 9 posts ago.

Meh, whatever floats your boat.