ThePirateBay.org + 10,000 Legal disputes

Post by **bicostp** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:14 pm

demonofaj wrote:But when you buy it, and you can't even transcode it for an iPod that you bought with YOUR hard earned green backs?...whdafxup?

Well that can't be too cracked-down upon, since Microsoft and Apple, the 800 pound gorillas of the OS and music player markets (respectively), both give away tools to do just that...

vskid · Post by **vskid** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:23 pm

bicostp wrote:
demonofaj wrote:But when you buy it, and you can't even transcode it for an iPod that you bought with YOUR hard earned green backs?...whdafxup?
Well that can't be too cracked-down upon, since Microsoft and Apple, the 800 pound gorillas of the OS and music player markets (respectively), both give away tools to do just that...

They do? I've never been able to do anything like that without using a different program like MediaCoder and DVD Decrypter.

Post by **bicostp** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:05 am

Oh, DVDs. I thought we were still talking about CDs.

Post by **Sparkfist** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:28 am

Ok where to begin...

Roms, as mentioned earlier they are a touchy subject, but it's because there are a lot of rules surrounding them. For starters old systems like Atari, Commodre, and other video/computer roms that have been effectively abandoned are called abandon-ware and are up for grabs by the gaming community.

Under the DMCA, you are allowed to have a ROM/video as a piece of software when the original media becomes unsupported. So if you no longer can get a game like Dragon Quest (or sequel) in the cartridge form and/or lack the system, and the system is no longer supported by the company you can a ripped ROM and emulator to play the game.

Nintendo makes the above difficalt to do as they like to port, and port and port their games until playing an NES game on the Wii is the 27th port they've made. Companies like Nintendo will renew their copyright and keep it so you have to buy the game to legally have it. There is no getting around it.

As for movies, my old stance stays the same. I only download/buy movies that I feel are worth it. If the movie was really good and very likely one I saw in theaters I'll buy the DVD.

However the fact I download doesn't make me feel all that bad. Millions of dollars are earned in the theaters and millions more from (over priced) DVD sales. I take into account the fact that they've likely made a profit in the theaters, then couple that with the cost of making and distripting the DVD. The DVDs they make a lot of money on, a lot when they sell for $19.99. I think charge a fair price and I'll buy every movie I want to see.

Limewater · Post by **Limewater** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:08 pm

Sparkfist wrote:I think charge a fair price and I'll buy every movie I want to see.

If people are willing to pay $19.99 for a luxury item that they really don't need, how is that not a fair price?

Given the amount of competition among DVD retailers, I think it's pretty safe to say that DVDs are currently priced at the level the market supports. It's not just fair, it's laissez faire!

benol · Post by **benol** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:46 pm

Sparkfist wrote:Ok where to begin...

Roms, as mentioned earlier they are a touchy subject, but it's because there are a lot of rules surrounding them. For starters old systems like Atari, Commodre, and other video/computer roms that have been effectively abandoned are called abandon-ware and are up for grabs by the gaming community.

Under the DMCA, you are allowed to have a ROM/video as a piece of software when the original media becomes unsupported. So if you no longer can get a game like Dragon Quest (or sequel) in the cartridge form and/or lack the system, and the system is no longer supported by the company you can a ripped ROM and emulator to play the game.

Nintendo makes the above difficalt to do as they like to port, and port and port their games until playing an NES game on the Wii is the 27th port they've made. Companies like Nintendo will renew their copyright and keep it so you have to buy the game to legally have it. There is no getting around it.

As for movies, my old stance stays the same. I only download/buy movies that I feel are worth it. If the movie was really good and very likely one I saw in theaters I'll buy the DVD.

However the fact I download doesn't make me feel all that bad. Millions of dollars are earned in the theaters and millions more from (over priced) DVD sales. I take into account the fact that they've likely made a profit in the theaters, then couple that with the cost of making and distripting the DVD. The DVDs they make a lot of money on, a lot when they sell for $19.99. I think charge a fair price and I'll buy every movie I want to see.

So Atari roms and non-Nintendo NES roms are legal? That would make PS1 ISO's illegal, because the PS3 plays PS1 games, right? And are non-Nintendo SNES games legal? Nintendo no longer supports the SNES.

Limewater · Post by **Limewater** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:38 pm

benol wrote: So Atari roms and non-Nintendo NES roms are legal? That would make PS1 ISO's illegal, because the PS3 plays PS1 games, right? And are non-Nintendo SNES games legal? Nintendo no longer supports the SNES.

No, very few of the roms you mention are legal.

The only legal ones are the ones which have been released to the public domain or homebrews that have been released under a licensing scheme that allows free distribution.

"Abandonware" is not a legal term. Most abandonware is illegal, unless, again, it has been legally released to the public domain or placed under GPL or something. It's just that very few of the publishers care enough to stop its distribution.

madc0w · Post by **madc0w** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:25 pm

Gamerdude wrote:Okay, maybe I made that a little too harsh. I am glad you posted the thing about the "you don't really own anything" law. I knew that but it had never really hit me that way before, I payed $300 for Windows (yes, I could of downloaded it for free) and I only got a license to put it on my computer !
I had a bad day so I just had to let off a little anger on someone, I should listen to both sides of the story but I must say the US has som eof the dumbest laws ever, a $250,000 fine and a felony for copying a DVD! THAT PIS*$ES ME OFF. I like the way Piratebay just tells all these companies, "F&*% you" and other things like that.
BTW I have 500 posts on another forum (I'll give you the link if you want).

UPDATE: So it is illegal to put a movie I just went out and bought on my I-Pod?

Wow, five hundred posts, you want some gold stars for that?
But basically I think most of this antipircay stuff is hogwash. Half of the point people pirate is because the RIAA and company keep restricting content and such, making it expensive to do things legally.
EDIT: Holy S--T I just realized I'm a senior member *Woot*

benol · Post by **benol** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:48 pm

madc0w wrote:EDIT: Holy S--T I just realized I'm a senior member *Woot*

Really? I noticed it a long time ago!

@gamerdude: And I have over 700 posts on this fourm. Big whoop!

EDIT: NVM, 800!

Felino · Post by **Felino** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:55 pm

700 spam posts about people grammer.

timmeh87 · Post by **timmeh87** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:44 pm

Abandonware may be 'illegal' in some instances (copyright does expire eventually), but the very essence of the concept is that it is abandoned. That is to say, no one is going to try to get you for copying it.

Felino · Post by **Felino** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:05 pm

Then how come me copying a 20 year old mac rom off the internet is illicit?

I mean, i think the copyright is out on the rom, yet you can't get it anywere.

Limewater · Post by **Limewater** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:58 pm

timmeh87 wrote:Abandonware may be 'illegal' in some instances (copyright does expire eventually), but the very essence of the concept is that it is abandoned. That is to say, no one is going to try to get you for copying it.

It's illegal in most cases, and will be for the next several decades. Copyrights last a really long time in most countries.

However, it's illegal largely in the same way that driving five miles per hour over the speed limit is illegal, or being publically intoxicated in New Orleans during Mardi Gras is illegal. It's not really enforced.

Some companies, like Sierra, do not allow their old software to be distributed as abandonware. However, they've been able to stop (or at least minimize) distribution of their old software just through writing letters to people doing the distributing. I don't think there have been any messy lawsuits.

Felino wrote:Then how come me copying a 20 year old mac rom off the internet is illicit?

I mean, i think the copyright is out on the rom, yet you can't get it anywere.

The copyright on the rom is still intact. Australian copyrights last a long time, too. They don't last as long as in the U.S., but still pretty darn long.

But again, it appears that Apple is pretty tolerant of people copying their old abandonware.

Felino · Post by **Felino** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:08 pm

I mean, they are peobably not going to go looking for every copy of their 1980's mac rom are they?

Post by **Sparkfist** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:47 am

Felino wrote:I mean, they are peobably not going to go looking for every copy of their 1980's mac rom are they?

Actually if the ROM is for hardware and software Apple no longer supports I think you're in the clear. I'm fairly sure that you can go all the way up to Mac OS 8 now, Apple dropped that OS when they finished the migration to Intel, if not OS 9.

As for the whole abandon-ware thing. Would it be fair to say that the holder of Colecovison copyrights would care, or attack you if they found out you were copying/sharing ROMs to their system? Only the most greedy and depraved indevidual would sue or jump someone for that.

However keep in mind that again you can legally have a ROM and use it because the hardware and media the game(s) were played on are not longer supported, or seen as compatible with modern technology. Take a look at it.