ThePirateBay.org + 10,000 Legal disputes

Felino · Post by **Felino** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:48 am

THing is, 100 remoakes of tetris, not good.

I see your point vskid.

Seaniccus · Post by **Seaniccus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:17 am

vskid wrote: The way I see it (and the way it should be if it isn't), is that if you own a hard copy of the game, you are entitled to use a software copy of the same game, too.

Although there is some argument about it, a law was passed back in the era of weak magnetic medai to protect the buyer from format degredation - that is- you were allowed to make copies of any software you owned to protect your license to it. IN a piracy case, it was once found that it iddn't apply to cartridge media because an atari cartridge is less likely to degrade than a 5 inch floppy.
Many in the "back up" hobby area (Local Rom Rippers) ignore the last case and call their actions legal. I'm not sure what the standing is, but if you rip it from your own games YOURSELF, you are a lot more likely to be legal than if you downloaded it, regardless if you have the cart.

CronoTriggerfan wrote: You own the file legally, you should be able to put it wherever you want to. WRONG!

CTFan

Wrong indeed, but not for the reasons you listed.
Technically, you don't own any file when you buy anything - you own a license to play thta music on the format you purchased it in. It's weird and complicated, but you don't own any of the media you have - not even your gamse. YOu own a license to use said software or files.

Read over your windows EULA carefully. Kinda weird, eh?

I'm not sure how I feel about it personally, but that's the law apparently.

Gamerdude · Post by **Gamerdude** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:16 pm

Okay Mr. I only have 29 posts, No one here reads license agreements (at least I hope we all have the decency not to), I tried to read one once and I just got frustrated on page 3 of 32 so I said the heck with it. I own the hard copy of my ROMs but I like to play them on the computer instead of the ol' systems. We may be Geeks (notice it is capitalized) but we don't care about the technical, "I can and can't do this with my games" thing.

I said that as polite as possible but your a new member and your were going to have this said to you sometime or another. BTW Before a mod deletes my post, just remember all the other stuff people have said on here, even in this thread.

vskid · Post by **vskid** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:38 pm

I think most of the laws are a bunch of crap. Plus, how often does the FBI randomly raid houses for illegal ROMs? The way I see it, busting someone for $10 worth of 20 year old ROMs is a bunch of crap when you have all the other crap that goes on in the world. Plus, how are they going to know whether or not you backed it up?

I think software like Windows is different than games, Windows is just a license, games are the actual game, you just can't copy and redistribute it. I'm pretty sure that music and movies are similar to games, but the laws are still retarded. If I pay $20 for a DVD, I'm going to watch it on my Tv, PSP, ipod, and whatever else I have that can play it.

Seaniccus · Post by **Seaniccus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:41 pm

Gamerdude wrote:Okay Mr. I only have 29 posts, No one here reads license agreements

Hold up son, i'm just talking about what technically is and is not legal, as defined by software production companies and various lawsuit rulings. Y can ignore whatever you want, I'm not here to tell you what to do, but I will express my own opinion on the matter and how I came to that opinion. I fully understand that this discussion is taking place on the internet and as such any one person changing their opinion on any subject is very unlikely.

Gamerdude with [b]172[/b] very valuble posts wrote: I said that as polite as possible but your a new member

Holy crap! I'm a new member? I had no idea!

Oh woe as me, my entire existance wittled down to an irrelevent number. Why... why.. Why was I born into this cruel world where quantity was more valuble than quality?! If you could only tell me this, perhaps I could [Log Out] a happy man...

Seaniccus · Post by **Seaniccus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:45 pm

vskid wrote:I think most of the laws are a bunch of crap. Plus, how often does the FBI randomly raid houses for illegal ROMs? The way I see it, busting someone for $10 worth of 20 year old ROMs is a bunch of crap when you have all the other crap that goes on in the world. Plus, how are they going to know whether or not you backed it up?

I think software like Windows is different than games, Windows is just a license, games are the actual game, you just can't copy and redistribute it. I'm pretty sure that music and movies are similar to games, but the laws are still retarded. If I pay $20 for a DVD, I'm going to watch it on my Tv, PSP, ipod, and whatever else I have that can play it.

It's certainly a dicy subject when it comes to old games, that's why I don't make a big fuss about it. I do what I do because it makes ME feel better, but the only argument I can make at all is "Don't get game X because nintendo put it on the VC," and i'm not here to argue that point. It's just you know, in concept.

As far rights managment, yeah - if I coulden't play my DVD on my ipod or whatever i'd be pretty peeved to. As I said, I don't have a strong stance on that either, i'm still making up my mind. I was just observing the software license "you don't own it" bit as an interesting fact. I think it's weird.

In any case, you guys should check out JOOST. I think it's Joost.com It's essentially like... free legal cable TV or something. This discussion reminded me of it.

Gamerdude · Post by **Gamerdude** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:08 pm

Okay, maybe I made that a little too harsh. I am glad you posted the thing about the "you don't really own anything" law. I knew that but it had never really hit me that way before, I payed $300 for Windows (yes, I could of downloaded it for free) and I only got a license to put it on my computer

!
I had a bad day so I just had to let off a little anger on someone, I should listen to both sides of the story but I must say the US has som eof the dumbest laws ever, a $250,000 fine and a felony for copying a DVD! THAT PIS*$ES ME OFF. I like the way Piratebay just tells all these companies, "F&*% you" and other things like that.
BTW I have 500 posts on another forum (I'll give you the link if you want).

UPDATE: So it is illegal to put a movie I just went out and bought on my I-Pod?

Felino · Post by **Felino** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:52 pm

In theory (to my knolage) no.
As long as only you, and no people out of your general family view it.

Thats my reading of it.

lifeisbetterwithketchup · Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:14 pm

Thanks to the DMCA (in the US), even taking a DVD you paid for and own and transcoding it to put on say, an iPod, is illegal. You are "circumventing copyright protection", which is a load of BS. You bought the damn movie, you should be able to put it on whatever the hell you want.

Felino · Post by **Felino** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:05 pm

Not really.

They still own the dvd, which in itself is dumb. You only own the rights to view it.

Ben Cebhrem · Post by **Ben Cebhrem** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:09 pm

I doubt that with current laws, and a decent lawyer, you couldn't get off the hook for copying a DVD over to your iPod or computer.

As to the original point, I was not aware that any first world country's laws allowed for a bittorrent site to be raided and searched. It will be interesting to see what legal basis there was to issue a warrant for such a thing.

And Seaniccus- you seem like an intelligent guy. You ought to know that people have to build up their reputation within any group.

Welcome aboard at any rate.

Felino · Post by **Felino** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:12 pm

Its always good to have new material.

Seaniccus · Post by **Seaniccus** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:04 am

Felino wrote: They still own the dvd, which in itself is dumb. You only own the rights to view it.

Yeah, that is dumb. I'm not even sure how that works.

The only license rule that I know is that if you buy a DVD, you can legally screen it to the public provided that you don't charge anybody to view it, and it's the same as viewing it in your own home - HOWEVER, the instant you charge someone, you are out of license, and you can get in big trouble.

I remember becaues back when I was into Anime, Fanime (San Jose) almost got in trouble for this, and were no longer allowed to make you show your badge when you went into a movie room, and this was the explination given when I asked staff about the operation difference.

CFC Fodder wrote:
As to the original point, I was not aware that any first world country's laws allowed for a bittorrent site to be raided and searched. It will be interesting to see what legal basis there was to issue a warrant for such a thing.

My guess is they'll use some sort of "accomplice" charge, or "aiding" or something. Although they are not hosting any of the illegal files, by hosting the trackers they are sort of creating a "highway" for the illegal goods. I guess you could call them a middleman, but um...

I have no idea. Those are the only "lines" i can think along that they could argue with any hope, and even that's pretty dim. It'd be easy if it was all in the physical world, but it's digital, and it's complicated. You've got one thing right for sure though - it will be interesting to see what their legal basis was.

CFC Fodder wrote: And Seaniccus- you seem like an intelligent guy. You ought to know that people have to build up their reputation within any group. Welcome aboard at any rate.

Aw heck, I know - I just don't think a post count is an accurate way to represent ones reputation. Reputation should be based on ones actions, not how often one acts.

Thanks though! I feel pretty welcome here actually. I've gotten a lot of help on the 8-bit forum, and i'm halfway through an NESp -- at least if I didn't fry the circuit board, which I might have.

SavageLych · Post by **SavageLych** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:13 pm

Lets look at it this way smarty pants. I go and buy a house, pay for it in cash, i pay my bills, all that jazz. Now lets say some guy from my bank comes down, and sues me because the guy i baught it from didint do it threw the bank. The guy from the bank decides the house is worth Three million dollars because i broke the agreement he had with the guy i baught it from. how does that make sense....I can understand sueing peoples pants off when they put there own material up there, but after that, come on! How can I get screw over that bad for somthing that costs a dollar( a song). I didnt put it up there, i simply downloaded a copy of the origonal. I know what the law says, but didn;t the law also say that a human being was a piece of property at one point. I understand the whole comic book thing, but when do you ever hear of a BAND sueing SOMEONE for stealing THERE work. NEVER . Its always the huge companys...(cept metallica)

demonofaj · Post by **demonofaj** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:32 pm

lol, Napster bad. But seriously, I have to agree on the whole "if you buy it, you own it". The DMCA is going pretty overboard. DRM is now like ownership nazi. What happened to the land of the the free?

. Anyway, I just have to say, seriously, if you buy, you can do whatever you want with it, except if you're doing something illegal. But when you buy it, and you can't even transcode it for an iPod that you bought with YOUR hard earned green backs?...whdafxup?