I thought Geroge Lucas was done Changing Star Wars.

gamer2 · Post by **gamer2** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:44 pm

I was wrong. Earlier today I was watching Return of the Jedi on HBO, enjoying my time off when it got to the end. When I notice something odd.

I thought that was weird, I thought I was just seeing things when Hayden Christenson appeared at the end of Return of the Jedi, so I pooped in my VHS of Return to see if I am going crazy. I wasn't going crazy.

They replaced actor Sebastian Shaw (Who also played the Unmasked vader on the death star), with Hayden Christenson at the very end.

George Lucas needs to quit messing with art.

Your thoughts?

jones · Post by **jones** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:02 pm

Yeah, this was done when they originally released the special editions of the original Star Wars films on DVD a few years back.

Adding this little change at the end was a blip on the radar compared to how he raped the rest of the film. There's that lame musical number in Jabba's palace which feels completely out of place and replaced the cool song that was playing in the original version of the film. He also made the Sarlacc Pit look like an outcast from Little Shop of Horrors and took away pretty much everything that originally made the Pit cool. And the list goes on.

He pretty much rendered Jedi unwatchable for me and in it's "Special Edition" form I consider it to be hands down the worst of all the Star Wars films. Lame!

As far as the scene you pointed out, it never made sense for him to make that change anyway, because Luke wouldn't even recognize him! He hasn't even seen a picture of his father (that we know of anyway). So how in the hell would he know who this guy is hanging out with Obi-wan and Yoda?

I suppose it's some garbage having to do with the fact that he wasn't Anakin anymore when he became Vader. So this was the last time he was good. Nevermind the fact that he turned back to good just before dying.

Again... Lame!

vskid · Post by **vskid** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:16 pm

Wasn't the laserdisc version the last that had everything original? Someone should get a hold of some good copies and record them to their computer before they rot away.

I hate the changes they've made. Han shot first, if Gweedo shot first, he was a horrid shot and his blaster bolt looks nothing like any of the others in the movies. They should at least give people a choice, have an unraped version and a raped version.

jones · Post by **jones** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:39 pm

vskid wrote:Wasn't the laserdisc version the last that had everything original? Someone should get a hold of some good copies and record them to their computer before they rot away.

They actually released copies of the true originals on DVD last year. They are based off of the laserdiscs you mentioned and are non-anamorphic which sucks, but they are probably as good as we are going to get. Unfortunately if you didn't buy them last year they may be hard to get, since I remember reading that they were no longer going to be produced after the end of last year.

They should at least give people a choice, have an unraped version and a raped version.

I wholeheartedly agree. At least when Spielberg raped E.T. he still sent the original version of the film along with the "Raped Edition" in the same DVD set. Giving the consumer choice in the process.

Being that Spielberg and Lucas are buddies you would think that maybe they would share this philosophy, but apparently we can't get that lucky.

lifeisbetterwithketchup · Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:18 pm

I own a bunch of editions of the Star Wars Trilogy. I have two versions on Laserdisc (the "Definitive Collection" and the "THX Faces" set). I also have the 1995 widescreen VHS tapes. And lastly, I have the DVD box set and the "originals" released last year.

I am very much a fan of the originals. When I first read the title of this thread, i thought Lucas had released/announced a newer, more "special" edition, and had a rant started in my head.

At least there's nothing new (yet). I did hear before that 3D versions of the films were being produced and would be released to coincide with the 30th anniversary of the series. I would pay to see that, even if it was the raped versions.

Reaperman@home · Post by **Reaperman@home** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:17 pm

sure seeing the old ones is easy--some of the easiest laserdiscs to find unless you count startrek4...
but how does one view an original version of the new starwars movies? I bought a dvd of ep1 and it's certainly longer.

'Directors cuts' are ruining movies just as badly as complete makeovers. My general rule is that 'unrated version' means I should leave it right where it sits.

Post by **Sparkfist** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:11 am

Well I own both the Original and the Special Edition. Granted the Original is VHS with the crappy 4:3 aspect ratio, but hey it was bought nearly 1- years ago. I've also got the whole Special Edition on DVD. So if I feel I can watch either one.

I have to agree whole heartedly with Jones about the Jabba palace dance number. I can understand Lucas wanting to make the singer more realistic. Though to do that he didn't have to change the music, and add that weird singing guy (have to check species). Hell you don't even see or understand why Jabba dropped that Tweelic into the Rancor pit because of all that crap.

The only major improvement I think they did was one the Emperor and how he looked, and at the end all the cities celebrating the collapse of the Empire (because think of the speed that news would travel).

Limewater · Post by **Limewater** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:57 am

[quote="Sparkfist"]
The only major improvement I think they did was one the Emperor and how he looked, and at the end all the cities celebrating the collapse of the Empire (because think of the speed that news would travel).[/quote

Are you kidding?

The ending "galaxy-wide" celebration was ridiculously stupid. We don't need to see any of that crap. We don't know who any of those people are. It just made its ending like every other cheesy movie that has been made since.

Also, and I could be wrong on this, the Star Wars universe, at least in the original trilody, appears not to have a particularly sophisticated communications network. You don't see televisions everywhere. Princess Leia was actually physically transporting the stolen Death Star plans rather than sending them through some futuristic version of the internet. The same applies to how she sent her message for Obi Wan Kenobi.

The only things that I thought the special editions made better were the land speeder special effects in the first movie, cleaning up the visible black outlines in most of the green-screen shots, and maybe about half of the changes to cloud city which made the place a little less claustrophobic.

Actually, I could take or leave the cloud city changes.

Post by **Sparkfist** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:07 am

Ahh, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't Darth Vader receive a message from the Emperor while chasing the Rebels in "the Empire Strikes Back"? Keeping in mind that the Emperor is on Coressent and Vader was (to my understanding) by the outer rim.

As for Leia and the Death Star plans. Would you risk sending something like that over an unsecured transmission medium. The Rebels were trying to hide and sending and receiving something like that could expose them. Another thing is if you have it physically on you, or in the memory of a droid that is with you, you know that the information isn't being changed you know it will get there because you know it's in your possession. And yes I see the irony in what I'm saying when R2-D2 goes running off.

Thing is there is long range communication. It's not shown often but it's there.

Limewater · Post by **Limewater** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:19 am

Sparkfist wrote:Ahh, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't Darth Vader receive a message from the Emperor while chasing the Rebels in "the Empire Strikes Back"? Keeping in mind that the Emperor is on Coressent and Vader was (to my understanding) by the outer rim.

I couldn't tell you off the top of my head, but you're probably right. I didn't say that long-range communication was impossible in the Star Wars universe, but it is quite clearly a rare thing. There does not appear to be a widespread universal communication or anything. Television appears to be nonexistent. This isn't the sort of infrastructure that would have news travel that fast. I mean, sure it could get to the radio operators on various planets decently quickly, but there does not appear to be an extensive media presence to get the information out the the masses.

Or maybe I'm just being pessimistic. Even if the infrastructure was there, I would still hate that scene for being impossibly cheesy. Also, I really missed the original Ewok song. The replacement sucked.

As for Leia and the Death Star plans. Would you risk sending something like that over an unsecured transmission medium.

No, I wouldn't.

However, I live in the real world. When is the last time you saw ANYONE on television or film take real serious security measures for communication? You have people running around in public talking on cell phones and asking, "Is this a secure line?". You have people running around public places discussion classified information.

And besides, you just mentioned the empire transmitting intelligence on the Rebel position over a wireless connection without fear of the rebels being tipped off. Clearly there is security available for the communication channels that exist.

Princess Leia transporting the Death Star plans herself accomplished its purpose. They needed a reason to get Luke involved with the rebel alliance, and this was it. I think it's pretty clear he would not have done so if he had foreseen the internet. He would likely have had a galaxy-wide version of it.

The Rebels were trying to hide and sending and receiving something like that could expose them.

And having a high-profile diplomat physically visit them would lessen the risk?

Another thing is if you have it physically on you, or in the memory of a droid that is with you, you know that the information isn't being changed you know it will get there because you know it's in your possession.

Sure on the physical media, but I disagree about the guarantee of information fidelity when stored in a droid's memory. If I burn a file to a CD, I know it isn't going to change. If I store it on a hard drive that is constantly accessed and is on erasable and re-writable media, I have no such guarantee.