Bike brakes

Want to just shoot the breeze? Forum 42 is the place!

Moderator: Moderators

bicostp
Moderator
Posts: 10491
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:47 pm
Steam ID: bicostp
Location: Spamalot
Contact:

Bike brakes

Post by bicostp »

Ok I'm sick of the brakes that are on my bike. (Yes, I do actually get physical activity. I don't spend <i>all</i> day on the computer! :P) They don't work very well. Here's a cheap, MS-Painted simplified diagram of my current setup:

<img src="http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1747/cheapoct5.gif">

There are two pieces of metal that anchor at one end. Each has a cable attached to the opposite end. The one on the left (if you're sitting on it, or looking at the back tire from behind) has a screw/nut which holds the main brake cable. The other ends in this cheap clip thing that secures to the main cable with a screw. The red arrows indicate how force from the brake lever is distributed through the system. Obviously it will stop eventually, becasue otherwise they would not sell bicycles equipped with this setup. The Achille's Heel of this system is just how weak it is. Once the calipers pass a certain point, the force from the cable will pull more up, against the nut at the base, rather than against the brake pad and wheel rim. This is just wasted energy.

Not only is it wasteful, but it's also dangerous. This DOES NOT STOP WHEN GOING DOWNHILL! I learned that the hard way. That was really damn scary, because I was on a long hill and I had to avoid hitting a kid on a big wheel. Basically I pulled both brakes as hard as I could, snapping the front cable, and I had to slam my feet on the ground. Thankfully I didn't run the tyke over. This was unnecessary, especially since I was only doing 15-20 MPH at the time...

Here's a diagram of one of my friends' bike brakes (also cheaply rendered in MS Paint).
<img src="http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/1501/iwanttheseyj7.png">

This is a much better setup because all the cable force is directed at pulling the tops of the calipers toward each other. This is the setup I want to install. (Well, anything is better than the cheapo junk I have now...) It's a lot stronger and safer.

I took some pictures and brought them to the local bike shop. (They mostly sell $200+ bikes there.) I told the guy behind the counter my problem, and told him exactly what I wanted: the calipers and that's it. They could have sold me the calipers and let me on my way. No. He said stuff like "Bring it by tomorrow and the repair guy will give you an estimate", "We'll have to install them. Because." and "are you sure you want to put money into a Magna?" (That's what my bike is, a $90 Magna from Target). When I repeatedly told him I wanted to just buy the parts and install them myself, he gave me that <img src="http://skytroniks.com/images/database/smilies/wtf.gif"> look. (I bet he thought I couldn't do it, since I'm 19. If I can re-pack the bearings in a car I can install a lousy pair of brake calipers on a bicycle. :roll:)

Here's what he told me needed to be replaced

- The brake handle (because the stock one is plastic. I've broken more brake cables with plastic handles than I can count. :roll:)
- The handle perch (to go with the new one)
- The brake cable (because the existing ones are stock and a department store replacement)
- The calipers (duh)
- The mounting bracket (<img src="http://skytroniks.com/images/database/smilies/wtf.gif"> WTF indeed, mine's universal.)
- The brake pads (even though I bought some decent, upgraded replacements from them 6 months ago, and I TOLD HIM THAT)

Basically he said everything about the existing brake system is garbage and needs to be replaced. I think they're just trying to sucker me into buying more parts. I've had crappier secondhand bikes with brake systems that have good calipers that stop better than this bike did when it was new.

In short, they seem reluctant to just sell me parts. Maybe because the guy who was there must have fillings that are older than I am... Who knows.

My bike is a Magna, and as I said before I bought it at Target for $90 on sale. The brakes have been tweaked a lot but they don't work any better. My friend's bike is a Shwinn. It came with the better calipers. Granted, Magnas are the economy car's equivelant in bicycles, but like their automotive counterparts they'll last just like anything else if you keep up with maintenance.

I'm looking for confirmation here: Do I really NEED to replace the entire system? I don't think so. I'm not sure if anyone here has a clue about this stuff, but it doesn't hurt to try. ;) All the mounting points look the same on this bike, my friend's, my dad's and every other bike I've ever seen. I see no reason why I can't just replace the two rear calipers and be done with it.

Part question, part rant post over. Congratulations if you read the whole thing. :P
Turbo Tax 1.0
Portablizer Extraordinaire
Posts: 4773
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:19 pm
Location: Delaware, no sales tax
Contact:

Post by Turbo Tax 1.0 »

your images are all broken for me. and im not getting uch info from just reading i'd like to try and help but am having a hard time
when life gives you lemons make flux
Image
snesp mk4
totokan
Senior Member
Posts: 1785
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 12:29 pm
Location: 127.0.0.1
Contact:

Post by totokan »

err.. maybe it's just me, but your pics are broken. (using FF, of course)
EDIT: TT beat me to it :(
Shhh! I'm not officially back yet.
SpongeBuell
Senior Member
Posts: 5190
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:52 am
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Post by SpongeBuell »

Pics work fine for me. You may want to just try new brake pads, if you haven't already. I should really replace mine, they have hardened a bit and make a weird noise, like you would expect hardened rubber against metal to make. Of course, it doesn't help me stop as well as it could.
Life of Brian wrote:
RYW wrote:RYW:

Rare
Yellow
Weasel
I'll be honest with you - I would have never guessed that.
Triton
Moderator
Posts: 7398
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 12:33 pm
360 GamerTag: triton199
Steam ID: triton199
Location: Iowa
Contact:

Post by Triton »

i love my bike, a western flyer trophy with backpedal break, its awesome
kidw/32+systems
Posts: 708
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:20 pm
Location: Clevelandish,OH

Re: Bike brakes

Post by kidw/32+systems »

bicostp wrote:Ok I'm sick of the brakes that are on my bike. (Yes, I do actually get physical activity. I don't spend <i>all</i> day on the computer! :P)...
UNCLEAN! no just kidding, I have actually had a 60 mile trip on a $4 bike from a city auction :D . Not to mention the amount or kinds of bikes, like my OCC StingRay I got for $45 at the flea market.

Yes I do get physical activity too.
PlayChoice games 50/54 37 toppers
bicostp
Moderator
Posts: 10491
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:47 pm
Steam ID: bicostp
Location: Spamalot
Contact:

Post by bicostp »

SpongeBuell wrote:Pics work fine for me. You may want to just try new brake pads, if you haven't already. I should really replace mine, they have hardened a bit and make a weird noise, like you would expect hardened rubber against metal to make. Of course, it doesn't help me stop as well as it could.
They are replacements (at least the back ones). They're better-performance hybrid pads, designed to squeegee water, mud, snow, and anything else you throw at it from the rim. They're pretty soft too. The front ones are just the stock pads that came on the bike.

Guys, I just threw the images on ImageShack. It's their problem if they don't load. Try again later. :)
Turbo Tax 1.0
Portablizer Extraordinaire
Posts: 4773
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:19 pm
Location: Delaware, no sales tax
Contact:

Post by Turbo Tax 1.0 »

check out this site for parts
http://www.nashbar.com/
they have a pretty wide range of parts and if i remember they had a nice price range also. i bought some stuff from here before and they were really cheap. i havnt been there in a while though so im not sure if they are as good as they used to be.

these should get you by fine wicked cheap too :wink: your probably gonna have to look around a little for some of the other needed parts
Last edited by Turbo Tax 1.0 on Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
when life gives you lemons make flux
Image
snesp mk4
blackbox_dev
Senior Member
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: Formerly known as iam7805

Post by blackbox_dev »

Go to a different store. :roll:
I'd imagine right now you wish you were a cuttlefish...
madc0w
Senior Member
Posts: 1912
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: In the ghetto of Larchmont! A HALF-A-MIL HOUSE IS GANGSER!
Contact:

Post by madc0w »

I really wanna get an old stingray and make a kick ass choppah bike (not the new stingray thats impossible to ride)
Kayleigh57020 wrote: "button" is insanity.
Scientology
Dangerous Cult
bicostp
Moderator
Posts: 10491
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:47 pm
Steam ID: bicostp
Location: Spamalot
Contact:

Post by bicostp »

TT: Looks decent, but a tad on the expensive side.

7805: The only other stores that sell bike parts near me are department stores. I haven't looked at Dick's Sporting Goods, but they seem to be more football/soccer/golf/etc... oriented.

If all else fails I might just see what the salvation army has for bikes. If they have one with good brakes I'll take it and salvage parts. Maybe make it into a project bike. (I've seen people use shopping cart baskets in between the front forks to make a cargo area, why not a small pickup-type thing? Possibilities...)
daguuy
Portablizer
Posts: 3666
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:09 pm
Location: missoura

Post by daguuy »

you don't need to replace the whole system. i built my bike from scratch and have done lots with the brakes and stuff and the only time i ever needed to get a bunch of new stuff was when i got a new fork (with shocks, woohoo! too bad they don't bounce :P ) because it was too big so now my front wheel is bigger than my back wheel. i asume brake calipurs are standard size so they'll work iff you just get those.
ImageImage
sandman2866
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:08 pm
Location: Ont, Canada
Contact:

Post by sandman2866 »

eh brakes are for people who wanna go slow i got a beater bmx and i do huge tricks stunts on it all the time with out brakes helmet any proptetction its all a coparate scam to get ur money

http://www.freewebs.com/canadian_crap/index.htm
check my site ^

kinda of an ad trying to help a lil though
bicostp
Moderator
Posts: 10491
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:47 pm
Steam ID: bicostp
Location: Spamalot
Contact:

Post by bicostp »

I just bought a new set of brakes. Turns out I do need to replace the brake handle and everything. But at least this other place I managed to find was willing to sell me the parts and not insist on installing them.

They're manufactured by Diatech. The label on the cardboard that was stapled to the bag says "DP9/777", which must mean the handle and caliper combination (the handles have DP9-pro or something like that printed on them).

Hopefully I'll be able to stop with these things. :lol: With the existing set, even with softer pads, I can squeze the handles as hard as I can without braking anything and still pedal relatively easily (no worse than when I tried to pull a red wagon with stuff in it behind my 20" single speed when I was a kid...).

The price wasn't bad either. $45 bought calipers, handles, and cables for both the front and rear, and of course all the hardware needed for installation.

I just hope they fit properly. If they do, all the old junk that came on the bike is getting replaced! 8)
vskid
Senior Member
Posts: 6314
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:25 am
Steam ID: vskid3

Post by vskid »

Did you ever consider disc brakes? My brother's bike has a front disc brake and it stops really good. And I think they're better for downhill and other stuff that causes you to brake a lot, because the friction doesn't heat the air in your tires, causing them to blow out.
Image
Post Reply