What's Going on Here?

[Triton]

I have kept off posting in this thread, however do want to make a few points.

1. Finally, this forum seems to want to encourage members to treat others with respect. I say "finally" for good reason. That is positive.
I like how you phrased this, especially how it implies that we didnt want people to be respectful before
2. Some things are happening (showcase, etc) here encouraged by "competition" (for want of better expression), which is positive.
That was Skyones idea, and I am pretty sure he was mulling over the idea long before the whole modretro incident occured
3. New view by mods here to start to listen more, positive. Before, even asking for basic things like forum sections got slammed.
we listened before, just because we didnt impliment your ideas doesnt mean we didnt consider and discuss them, same goes for all other suggestions we get
4. Bic, pretty obvious you don't like me, it isn't "a crusade" as you seem to think, i'm not on a crusade, although all indicators are that you are. You make snidy comments, often, as an Admin you are supposed to be impartial and behave as such! (you aren't the only offender on this). That's your problem, not mine. You will have noticed that I am an effective Admin on the other site; fair and impartial, and democratic. You and others here don't accept the fact that you are quite a bit responsible for the reasons for the setting up of the other forum; so get over it - don't be bitter.
We are people too, because one individual doesnt/does like/dislike another individual doesnt mean they arent an effective moderator/administrator
5. Skyone said "if a dog's owner kicks its dog, the dog won't come crawling back" - wrong, the dog bites the owner. You always have been happy to ask for people to leave if they don't agree with you, why should they? You leave!
what? are you saying that because people dont agree with us WE should leave? I fail to see the logic in that
6. Of course anyone can visit both sites, doesn't need your permission or blessing Bic. Everyone should be welcome on both sites, and are.
Bic was simply reinforcing the fact that nobody will be persecuted for being a member of modretro on here. so this is petty and redundant
7. There is no conflict between the two forums, people vote with their feet and do what they want anyway. BenHeck site is run by their Admin/Mods how they want to run it, and the ModRetro site has its Admin/Mods and run it how they/we want; it's up to everyone to choose if they want to be on one or both forums, their choice - at least now there is a choice to choose!
If there is no conflict then why is this thread here, obviously people still have problems either way
8. No reason to fight and "dual at ten paces", live and let live. Both forums are here to stay, let's get on and embrace each other. As quoted on the last post "It's the internet, you share a similar hobby, and you all have something to contribute. Don't hate, relate!". Indeed.

The only major issue that I ever had with the benheck forums is that member feedback was constantly shot down. It seems to me that these forums only began updating things such as smilies and youtube embedding after the modretro forums did, not to mention they used the exact same smilies that modretro did.
when i joined this forum there was no F42,arcade, handheld, dev center, tech q&a, news, screen, case, or reference sections, and some of the other sections have been expanded since then as well. to say that we dont listen to people is a GROSS EXAGGERATION and patently false. and the main reason many things were left unchanged as long as they were was because nobody other than ben had the ability to enact those changes, we were literally powerless to do anything of that sort.

Also, I do remember when Palmer's signature was vandalized, and that is just not cool, guys. In my opinion, a moderator is somebody who should be there to preform two simple tasks: I dont remember this incident at all

1-Keep the peace amongst members and deal with wrongdoing appropriately

2-Keep the forum open, welcoming, and updated, within reason, to people's requests

There have been multiple occasions in which the staff of this forum, consciously or not, failed to live up to one or both of these expectations. The reason I say "the staff" is because moderation teams are intended to work as a body, not just individuals with power, which you clearly have proven yourselves to be, mainly through the LOTWRDB incident and the vandalizing of Palmer's signature. Blaming a Whole for the Actions of a Few. People make mistakes, we are no different

I am not attempting to point fingers or anything, far from it. What I am trying to say is that there are serious issues that need to be addressed. I am not saying modretro is perfect, far from it. But at the moment, it is much more user-friendly, accepting, and helpful then this forum; thus the members "flocking" as you put it, to that site. You are pointing fingers, right at the mods because you think your in some way better

That's all. I will now leave again.

...? If you're referring to your rant about Palmer's signature, I can't even comment on that - I have no idea what happened. The rest of which you speak about is how moderators "don't keep peace, don't keep the forum open". Then you go on about the LOTWRDB incident that had nothing to do with bic or me.

But you were both aware that it happened.

are people EVER going to let that crap drop? honestly i am sick and tired of it! I'm over it, i would assume bacteria is ready to let the subject die as well so PLEASE dont bring it up again.

Also, Palmer. What, SPECIFICALLY AND DIRECTLY with as few words as possible, Do you want us to do. what are your requests, suggestions, whatever. you keep going on and on about getting ignored but i dont even know what it is you WANT. you use lots of nicely worded paragraphs and after i read them i still dont know

[AfroLH]

But apparently we can't test trial our own ideas, because [ModRetro fans] got vewy vewy upset when we decided to do our own thing..

Listen, I have never stated any problem against these forums or the mods/admins here. Yet, I get put into a stupid generalization like that.
Just because I go to Modretro does not mean I have any problem with you guys, or what you have done. I went there due to that fact that these forums got quiet for a month or two.

Please stop using such a blanket statement, I find it offensive.

[Triton]

But apparently we can't test trial our own ideas, because [ModRetro fans] got vewy vewy upset when we decided to do our own thing..

Listen, I have never stated any problem against these forums or the mods/admins here. Yet, I get put into a stupid generalization like that.
Just because I go to Modretro does not mean I have any problem with you guys, or what you have done. I went there due to that fact that these forums got quiet for a month or two.

Please stop using such a blanket statement, I find it offensive.

There have been multiple occasions in which the staff of this forum, consciously or not, failed to live up to one or both of these expectations. The reason I say "the staff" is because moderation teams are intended to work as a body, not just individuals with power, which you clearly have proven yourselves to be, mainly through the LOTWRDB incident and the vandalizing of Palmer's signature.

Don't forget the part that most of the mods are dicks.

Join the club.

[Skyone]

@AfroLH

...how did bicostp get bundled into that quote? Sorry to upset you, anyway. My statement was pointed a palmer/bacteria/select others. This thread is filled with generalizations, though. Especially pointed towards the moderators.

[bicostp]

The failing "Reference" forum was just an idea that the moderators had. But apparently we can't test trial our own ideas

This.

I put the Reference forum together because the wikis we set up before (on PoD and here) were abandoned because people complained that they weren't convenient because they weren't integrated with the forum. Instead of offering suggestions, people forgot about it and abandoned it. So I throw the Reference forum together, thinking it might be a more convenient solution. But apparently I made the critical mistake of having a "submissions" system to offer quality control through peer review. This was somehow skewed into an alleged dig for power. After a bunch of unnecessary pissin' and moanin' I got rid of that system and left everything open for direct posting, but apparently the damage was done by that point and the idea that "the ebil mods gonna take mah content" was so deeply rooted in peoples' heads that nothing short of offering a free beer with every submission would change peoples' minds about it. Nobody ever said to me "I don't want this system", they only said "you mods are going to steal all our submissions", "why can't I just post in the reference forums directly", "this is just another grab at power by the mods", and so on.

The first system we tried didn't work, so we tried something else. It's as simple as that. That didn't work either, so now we're trying something else.

We found some MediaWiki plugins that can integrate its user system with phpbb's username database, so we're going to try a locally hosted wiki again. Right now we have to wait for Ben to make sure the empty subdomain is set up, because we don't know if it persisted from the last server move (when it was left behind because nobody ever used it). At this stage it has to be set up in cPanel, and obviously he's the only one with that level of access to the server aside from employees of the hosting company.

I can't wait for the "you're just copying modretro again" comments to come rolling in because we're doing what you want again.

That is why I'm so aggravated: Apparently If we don't implement every single thing people come up with, we're evil fascist dictators. If we do what people want, we're evil fascist dictators. We ban someone who's constantly insulting people, we're evil fascist dictators. We don't ban someone who's constantly insulting people, we're lazy and useless. It seems that the mods here can do absolutely nothing right, because no matter what we do we hear nothing but whining, female of the dog species, and moaning about it.

I'm not angry with anyone, I'm just frustrated that no matter what we try, all we get in return is complaining. Complaining and blanket statements that every single mod and admin is a tyrannical dictator just because one had a little image in his sig, one abused his power, and neither told us about what was going on until we start getting mystery complaints about something we didn't know about.

I'm not going to beat the LOTWRDB dead horse in this thread, since it's not relevant and the poor thing's been turned into Jell-O by this point, but it could have been handled far better on both sides.

EDIT:

...how did bicostp get bundled into that quote?

That's what happens when you accidentally delete the wrong quote tags. I've done it too.

[AfroLH]

@AfroLH

...how did bicostp get bundled into that quote? Sorry to upset you, anyway. My statement was pointed a palmer/bacteria/select others. This thread is filled with generalizations, though. Especially pointed towards the moderators.

I forgot to delete the double quote.

Anyway, its cool.


Just don't do it again

[snowpenguin]

Triton, you're complaining about B_M telling you to leave, but that's exactly what you mods said before! This all needs to stop, now.

[palmertech]

EDIT: Woops, lemme fix my post.

[palmertech]

Also, Palmer. What, SPECIFICALLY AND DIRECTLY with as few words as possible, Do you want us to do. what are your requests, suggestions, whatever. you keep going on and on about getting ignored but i dont even know what it is you WANT. you use lots of nicely worded paragraphs and after i read them i still dont know

I see, a good request of me. I shall direct you to one of my recent posts in this very thread that you must have missed:

Two issues I have at this moment in time:

1. That thread you would be "Happy to unlock" is still locked.

2. I still want the admin responsible for vandalizing my signature on personal grounds to stop ignoring me and if not apologize, at least admit he did it. That was a complete abuse of power, and until they admit as much, there is no way I will change my opinion that at least some of the administration and moderation staff on BH have serious issues. You know who you are! How about you stop being a coward and making your peers look bad, and admit your wrongdoing, eh?

Issue 1 is taken care of, huzzah.

Issue 2, is not.

WARNING, MANY BIG WORDS COMING UP, DO NOT READ IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WORDS!

Oh, and when I say that people are ignoring me, it is in response to when people insult me, I respond, and they choose to completely ignore everything I said and vanish. If you want an example, look at the "Clear the air" thread that was just unlocked; after bringing up a multitude of suggestions, things that bugged me, and refutations of baseless personal attacks, I was generally ignored. The exceptions were the people who decided to take one or two small pieces out of my general picture, argue against those, and ignore the rest. THAT is why I complain about being ignored, especially when I get accused right back of your guys responses "Falling on deaf ears" (mine), and absolutely no evidence, citation, or example is given to back it up. As a perfect example, after the aforementioned accusation, I welcomed the mods to try and actually point out a time when I had "deaf ears", and get subsequently ignored. Yet somehow, the mods are able to demand of me that I provide backing for my accusations, in "as few words as possible", no less.

/LONG WORD RANT, IT IS SAFE AGAIN

Anyhow, you can see my current beef above. Let's stick to that one for now, and regardless of it's resolution, I will bring up more "specific and direct" suggestions later.

@the rest of this thread: ya, generalizations are bad, ma boi. As for the wiki, there were at least a few people that, contrary to your earlier post, Bic, DID say "We do not want this system, here is a better idea", including myself and Nitro2K1, off the top of my head. Oh, and last I heard (correct me if I am wrong), the last wiki did not "Die because of lack of interest", it died suddenly because it was lost in a server switch, and IIRC, at least a few people were miffed because they had lost a lot of useful info. Say what you want about lack of use, but there was some info on that wiki that is NOWHERE else (That I can find), like a great list of places that give samples for parts relevant to portables, sites you could easily get free tech magazine subscriptions from, and a few other bits and bobs I was upset about losing at the time, but have now forgotten.

Either way, wiki=winzorz

[Basement_Modder]

What does the acronym stand for, anyway?

I can't find any quotes from me, but I honestly had no idea what the symbol meant. ONE person in our staff had it in his signature, it wasn't a global crusade against bacteria. We are now both aware it occurred, and both did what we could to help the issue fade away.

The benheck.com staff does listen to the users. Otherwise, there would be no Development Center (after it was Grand Theft Portable, which a user - not a moderator - started), Technical Q&A, Arcade Games, and Handheld Hacking forums. You've only been around here for a year, so my guess is you didn't know that all of those forums came to existence solely because users requested them. Two to three wikis have been started by user request (but shut down because no one maintained them). The failing "Reference" forum was just an idea that the moderators had. But apparently we can't test trial our own ideas, because [ModRetro fans] got vewy vewy upset when we decided to do our own thing. There also wouldn't be a Portable-Palooza (2008/2009), among other things.

Take your misinformed assumptions away from this thread.

I actually have followed the forums since they began in 2004. I was only 9 then, and waited until I was 13 (aka until it was legal) to register. Also-portable palooza contests can technically be run by users not in a position of power, so that isn't really a "change" to the forums.

[Triton]

Oh, and when I say that people are ignoring me, it is in response to when people insult me, I respond, and they choose to completely ignore everything I said and vanish. If you want an example, look at the "Clear the air" thread that was just unlocked; after bringing up a multitude of suggestions, things that bugged me, and refutations of baseless personal attacks, I was generally ignored. The exceptions were the people who decided to take one or two small pieces out of my general picture, argue against those, and ignore the rest. THAT is why I complain about being ignored, especially when I get accused right back of your guys responses "Falling on deaf ears" (mine), and absolutely no evidence, citation, or example is given to back it up. As a perfect example, after the aforementioned accusation, I welcomed the mods to try and actually point out a time when I had "deaf ears", and get subsequently ignored. Yet somehow, the mods are able to demand of me that I provide backing for my accusations, in "as few words as possible", no less.

so your annoyed that somebody choose to respond to a particular part of one of your (typically very long winded) posts and not the whole thing basically? and as to the part in bold I wasnt demanding anything, i just dont wanna have to wade thru 3 paragraphs of verbosity to find out what your talking about. which is MY problem, your pissed off about various things and I dont know what or why like others have said, we cant read minds! your sig was vandalized (which is news to me) i dont know when, or why it happened but im assuming its been a while, dragging crap like this out in the open doesnt really help anything at all! Also, those people who insult you then disappear, its called TROLLING, every place on the internet has one, someone who wants to stir crap up.

And all that this

2. I still want the admin responsible for vandalizing my signature on personal grounds to stop ignoring me and if not apologize, at least admit he did it. That was a complete abuse of power, and until they admit as much, there is no way I will change my opinion that at least some of the administration and moderation staff on BH have serious issues. You know who you are! How about you stop being a coward and making your peers look bad, and admit your wrongdoing, eh?

says to me is "BAWW IM HOLDING A GRUDGE ON THE INTERNET!" is it really worth it?

[Basement_Modder]

And all that this

2. I still want the admin responsible for vandalizing my signature on personal grounds to stop ignoring me and if not apologize, at least admit he did it. That was a complete abuse of power, and until they admit as much, there is no way I will change my opinion that at least some of the administration and moderation staff on BH have serious issues. You know who you are! How about you stop being a coward and making your peers look bad, and admit your wrongdoing, eh?

says to me is "BAWW IM HOLDING A GRUDGE ON THE INTERNET!" is it really worth it?

What this says to me is "BAWW, SO WHAT IF ONE OF OUR MODS IS SECRETLY VIOLATING THE RULES AND NOT GETTING CAUGHT? WHAT DO YOU EXPECT THE STAFF TO DO ABOUT IT?"

[snowpenguin]

Triton, you make me sad. One of your own vandalizes Palmer's sig, then you complain that he 'drags it out in the open' AKA tells people and asks for an apology. Then you ask him to completely drop the subject altogether and never find out who vandalized his sig and never get an apology. You really are disappointing me, and I know my opinion probably doesn't matter much to a big modgod, but, that's the point. You're a mod, you're supposed to help problems get solved, not try and bury them.

[bicostp]

@palmer:

1. Unlockified!

2. Sorry, I can't find anything in the records about it so the best answer I can give you is "wasn't me".

3. It was probably 50/50 "nobody adds to it anymore" and "whoops".

[ShockSlayer]

I actually have followed the forums since they began in 2004. I was only 9 then, and waited until I was 13 (aka until it was legal) to register.

I call BS.

Oh, and generalizations, in general, are bad.

I'm going to go start my own site now, where people can go to avoid all this crap.

SS