Questo o Quella: Does it really matter?

[Triton]

some people CANNOT AFFORD healthcare! is this so hard to understand, no i do not think that the government should pay for everybody to have it but what about the people who genuinely need healthcare and cannot afford it. recently i went to the hospital because of a bad reaction from too much cough syrup, they did an EKG and blood tests and other than that left me sit in the room for a few hours and talked to me a couple times. guess how much this cost! ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED AND FORTY SIX DOLLARS

[SpongeBuell]

Sorry I am not paying for some fat lazy son of a * to get health care cause he ate to many cheese burgers. Not saying Triton is lazy or anything.

You know if we didn't have health care maybe natural selection would get a jump start Hell get rid of hospitals while we are at it.

*(rhymes with itch)

Who says that all hospital visits are from stuff like that? What about trips and falls that lead to broken bones, common with old age? What about people who have cancer from natural causes? What about standard surgeries, like wisdom teeth or tonsil removal? What about bike accidents to kids (or adults, for that matter)? If you gotta, have some kind of copay for those that did smoke, eat extraordinarily unhealthily, etc. but don't say that nobody can have healthcare because of what a few (albeit increasing) number of people did with their life.

[project_failure]

But Health Care companies need the profit to be efficient as well. As bad is it sounds most things in this world are driven by profit. With out the possibility of making a profit the development of new medical technology would cease and the industry would become stagnant. The health care business is just like any other industry and that is why privatizing it is better.

[grossaffe]

our current healthcare system does need work, but socialism isn't the answer. the problem is that the government is too involved in our healthcare. its like we're stuck between two different systems giving us the bad parts of both systems. we need to move to a more free-market healthcare system where people pay for their own healthcare instead of employers. No one will make a better decision on the quality and value of the healthcare they need better than the person in need. I'd trust myself to finding a healthcare provider better than the person spending money that's not theirs on healthcare for someone other than themselves.

[Sparkfist]

People are a problem.

Is that a reference to "Restaurant at the end of the Universe"?

Well again I don't think McCain is the best person I can think of for President, but I find him a better choice then Obama.

Reasons mainly for this:
Support peoples rights, not restrict them
Lower taxes
Fewer government programs
Want's to drill for oil
Still sees oil as an important fuel

Now there are other things I wish he'd do more of. Namely I'd like them to flat out punch people in the fact who speak out against privatization of SS. Cause I' want that money when I hit 65, not have it squandered by the damn government on some socialist plan or program.

And really guys I'm not interested in pay more taxes, and I know that's one of the first things Obama will try to do when in office. How? Simple he's a democrat and here in Michigan I've grown up hearing nothing but Democrats take about raising taxes, for a new program, or a new service, or we need more money for this. I'm tired of it here in the state, I sure as hell don't want it in Washington.

And to clarify things for a few of you, CTF and I are a minority here in Michigan. The state has been blue for who knows how long. People still hold out hope that the government is goign to take care of them, rather then just take less so they can stand on their own two legs.

[CronoTriggerfan]

People are a problem.

Is that a reference to "Restaurant at the end of the Universe"?

Well again I don't think McCain is the best person I can think of for President, but I find him a better choice then Obama.

Reasons mainly for this:
Support peoples rights, not restrict them
Lower taxes
Fewer government programs
Want's to drill for oil
Still sees oil as an important fuel

Now there are other things I wish he'd do more of. Namely I'd like them to flat out punch people in the fact who speak out against privatization of SS. Cause I' want that money when I hit 65, not have it squandered by the damn government on some socialist plan or program.

And really guys I'm not interested in pay more taxes, and I know that's one of the first things Obama will try to do when in office. How? Simple he's a democrat and here in Michigan I've grown up hearing nothing but Democrats take about raising taxes, for a new program, or a new service, or we need more money for this. I'm tired of it here in the state, I sure as hell don't want it in Washington.

And to clarify things for a few of you, CTF and I are a minority here in Michigan. The state has been blue for who knows how long. People still hold out hope that the government is goign to take care of them, rather then just take less so they can stand on their own two legs.

Agreed on every count, especially the latter. No matter how many times we get a Stabenow, a Grandholm, or (God forbid) a Kwame, the people here still keep electing these far-left Democrats, it makes no sense.

As for healthcare, I don't see why anyone would turn to the government on that one. The only two initiatives we've ever let the government run completely on their own, Social Security and the public school system, were both major failures and are now being left for our generation to deal with. Why would we let Washington ruin yet another potential market? Sure, healthcare may be expensive for some people now, and that needs work. But honestly, would you rather pay extra and live or be covered and rot on the side of the street?

[bicostp]

some people CANNOT AFFORD healthcare! [...]ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED AND FORTY SIX DOLLARS

Do you have health insurance? If you work for any decent-size company you should be able to get it fairly inexpensively. (I think my plan is between 70 and 100 a month, but I'm also full-time and the subcontractor I work for is a pretty big place.)

$1.5k for blood tests is fair, and remember you're taking the hospital's time as well.

The real question is, why did you have too much cough syrup in the first place?

[CronoTriggerfan]

EDIT: Sorry John, edited. But it wasn't meant to be a personal attack, but a legitimate complaint.

[SpongeBuell]

Also, something I wanted to point out as a "just sayin'" kind of thing... our members of congress and the like have a damn good health plan... who do you think pays for that?

[Triton]

Do you have health insurance? If you work for any decent-size company you should be able to get it fairly inexpensively. (I think my plan is between 70 and 100 a month, but I'm also full-time and the subcontractor I work for is a pretty big place.)

that requires being employed, if i hadnt been fired from radioshack i most likely would have gotten insurance through them, but then the other side of the coin is many employers offer insurance through COBRA which cost anywhere from 400-900$ a month for minimal coverage at best

i fail to see how 1.5k$ is a reasonable price for a simple blood test. and the only reason i was there as long as i was was because they asked me to stay and took a rather long time to get around to do anything, i dont consider sitting in a room ALONE for 2 hours waiting on them to do the bloodtest they decided i needed to be wasting anybodys time but my own

[vskid]

Still sees oil as an important fuel

Thats one thing I don't understand about everyone that says that we need to stop using oil. Gasoline and diesel are not the only things made from oil. Plastics, tar, and jet fuel are just a few of the other uses for it. Something tells me that an airplane wouldn't be able to get very far using the hydrogen it could carry.
We're gonna be using oil for probably the next 50 years, we might as well use our own.

[cowsgoquack101]

For anyone who believes that socialism is a bad thing, take a look at all of the countries with socialized medicine. They seem to be doing JUST SWIMMINGLY! I don't take medicine, I rarely get sick but I went for a sprained finger. It cost me $800! How in the (several foul words) is that worth a splint and a note to not write with that hand?! No, no it isn't.

I don't believe we should have free care as our only option, but it does need to be cheaper. My dad worked for 31 years and now the health care company (CareMark) charges him 70% of his pension. So he dropped it. He also can't get very good treatment at the VA. My mom doesn't have health insurance. Why should health care companies function as corporations? They shouldn't.

[CronoTriggerfan]

For anyone who believes that socialism is a bad thing, take a look at all of the countries with socialized medicine. They seem to be doing JUST SWIMMINGLY! I don't take medicine, I rarely get sick but I went for a sprained finger. It cost me $800! How in the (several foul words) is that worth a splint and a note to not write with that hand?! No, no it isn't.

I don't believe we should have free care as our only option, but it does need to be cheaper. My dad worked for 31 years and now the health care company (CareMark) charges him 70% of his pension. So he dropped it. He also can't get very good treatment at the VA. My mom doesn't have health insurance. Why should health care companies function as corporations? They shouldn't.

First of all, the notion that health care would be "free" if it were run by the government is just wrong, you'd pay through taxes. Second, Socialist countries doing "swimmingly"? The people there surrender all liberty for equality, it's not good at all. Their taxes are through the roof, prices are jacked up, the cost of living is extremely high, (VAT, anyone?), and worst of all, their health care system is awful. Watch this and read this, along with the other link I posted earlier, and tell me that things are operating swimmingly over on the other side of the pond. I'll see if I can find the article that I read (Associated Press, I think?) that had American vs. British disease-based deaths and waiting periods. Protip: America's survival rate was much higher and many British citizens waiting for medicine or organs never even got a bed to lie in.

The American health care system should operate under free market principles. Everyone is so infuriated that health care companies have such high premiums, but do you think that the fact that we have the second highest corporate tax in the world might have a bit to do with that? Just a bit? Look, of course there are some hard working people that can't get help or fall into hard times, and those people are the ones we should be helping. But the majority of Americans could afford good, incentive-driven health care that gets people help and medicine. America currently produces more life-saving drugs than any other country on the face of the planet, namely because it is not run by the government. Whenever the free market is let to work (with slight oversight, of course; this isn't the 1920s, after all) it is the best system in the world.

[Rekarp]

For anyone who believes that socialism is a bad thing, take a look at all of the countries with socialized medicine. They seem to be doing JUST SWIMMINGLY! I don't take medicine, I rarely get sick but I went for a sprained finger. It cost me $800! How in the (several foul words) is that worth a splint and a note to not write with that hand?! No, no it isn't.

I don't believe we should have free care as our only option, but it does need to be cheaper. My dad worked for 31 years and now the health care company (CareMark) charges him 70% of his pension. So he dropped it. He also can't get very good treatment at the VA. My mom doesn't have health insurance. Why should health care companies function as corporations? They shouldn't.

Look at the population distribution in terms of wealth, race, and education. The US is far more diverse in these categories then these countries.

[grossaffe]

America currently produces more life-saving drugs than any other country on the face of the planet, namely because it is not run by the government. Whenever the free market is let to work (with slight oversight, of course; this isn't the 1920s, after all) it is the best system in the world.

I'm glad you brought this up as someone I was discussing this with in another forum pointed it out as well and it is a very important point.