Army Strong.

daguuy · Post by **daguuy** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:21 pm

That wasn't off the handle, we were getting to the meat of what really happens when you join the army. I was saying how it's not really defending freedom and you have every right to counter that.

soundwave · Post by **soundwave** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:25 pm

daguuy wrote:I pretty much agree with bic. Canada doesn't have to worry too much about defense because it doesn't piss off the world, that's the US.

And about the glory stuff, people don't want you to go somewhere and fight. What do you think all the anti-war stuff going on is about? To be brutally honest, when soldiers die, they're viewed as statistics. You won't be remembered by many people and since you die, you don't get to defend much freedom. If you don't die, you'll only make more enemies and that does not bring you respect and praise and stuff. This might be me being a heartless bastard, but I consider people who join the army to go fight in the middle east (which <i>is</i> what happens if you join the army in this state of the world) foolish. There's no hope for peace ever in the middle east because it has significant religious history (not to mention oil, but i'll try to stay away from politics) and people always have and always will fight to the death to control it.

Why do you think the army advertises to teenagers? One reason is because they're strong and full of energy, but mainly because they make more rash decisions than older more fully developed people and don't fully understand the seriousness of death and going to war. They view it as action, being a hero, and glory when in reality, you're fighting for a person with an agenda.

But if you're willing to risk everything to slightly improve a resume, go ahead.

What are you trying to say? One person isn't to be valued? America (atleast most of us) doesn't believe in sacrificial lambs. I imagine those who fought the British in the revolution, and those who have fought in "real" wars were equally foolish as the men and women that enlist today?
I have a question, why the hell are you living in America? If you're so against it and its people, you should f****** move. I'm sick of all these people complaining about how bad everything is, yet do nothing to stop "it", whatever "it" happens to be this week, it seems to change a lot.

And what does a support of troops, and an interest in becoming a soldier have to do with the War in Iraq? You can do a lot of stuff that ISN'T a footsoldier. I don't know why people fail to understand this, if you're smart enough, and trained in another field, they aren't going to have you busting down doors.
And everybody thinks if you a soldier, the whole nation is supposed to remember your name, and that of every other of the millions of soldiers. You're not, you're supposed to acknowledge the fact that there are millions of soldiers out there, and that they deserve respect, regardless of the war, the position they hold, or the base they're on.

Have you ever heard the phrase "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"? Because that's what we'd be doing if we stopped trying with the Middle East. But hell, who gives for the baby? It'll just grow up to be a foolish soldier..

And what the hell do you mean by the teenager/adult thing? Counting only those who are/were/wanted-to-be in the Armed Forces, off the top of my head ~5 people (that I personally know, worked for, worked with, etc) have recommended without a second thought that I go into the Air Force. These aren't shifty, fickle people, they are very successful, respectable people. So I don't know where you get off saying that only naive teenagers can make these "rash" decisions. Hell, my father, who is 51, wishes he could still go in (he wanted to become a helicopter pilot, but with the overabundance of them after the Vietnam War, he was politely denied), and originally thought I should go in rather than going to college first, to teach me discipline.

And what's with this inane notion that the definitions of glory and foolishness change with time? If you enlisted in 1940 and fought in WWII you were glorious, but if you enlisted 6 months ago you're foolish? This doesn't make sense.

I guess this is why politics are frowned on within the forum walls, because man, I f****** hate you.

ZN13 · Post by **ZN13** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:31 pm

This is probably going to get out of control, but your pissing me off. And most people are.

Well, the people that say stuff like "Bush sucks" or "The war is all Bush's fault". What the hell? What would you rather he have done, just sit back and "take it like a man"; and by it I mean all the terrorist attacks. Sure, gas prices have gone up, but since they have, I've seen a lot more articles and shows about people researching alternative fuel sources...which we need.

Anti-War people also piss me off(just not as much, close, but not as much) because they're all saying stuff about how are troops are dying for no reason. Sure, I wish that so many soldiers didn't die; but, if you look at more articles and shows, like future weapons, they've switched from mainly high-powered, blow-your-face-off guns with a few advancements in defens to (basically) invicibility cloaks, invincable baody armor, and an inpenetrable truck with a high powered machine gun that's controlled from inside the truck, and a system that detects where shots are fired from; instantly. Wars are essential (in a way) to progress.

And back the anti-war, they wouldn't be able to say anything like that if hadn't become our own country and fought to keep our rights. And I don't know if they can't, or just wont, figure that out.

daguuy · Post by **daguuy** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:32 pm

It's all about the situation in the world today. Back then, we had to defend against the nazis, japs and king george. Today, there's a bunch of towel heads fighting over the middle east and it doesn't involve us. I guess you could do stuff that isn't gonna get you killed, but there's nothing at the moment that the army can defend against. The only enemies we have just want us to leave. And the whole "kill the terrorists" thing is BS. We lost more people in the war than we did from terrorist attacks, not to mention making more terrorists. The army can't defend us from these things.

Twisted Warthog · Post by **Twisted Warthog** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:35 pm

Yeesh. Were talking about Bush already? I can see this getting really out of control. Soon.

ZN13 · Post by **ZN13** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:38 pm

Doesn't involve us? How does a couple of radicals smashing planes into into the world trade center not involve us?

Thousands of people died, and they never signed up to be soldiers, they were just ordinary people. Does that make them foolish?

daguuy · Post by **daguuy** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:41 pm

That involved us, not the people we attacked. You have to just accept that you can't keep the entire country safe from terrorists. It's imposible.

Post by **CronoTriggerfan** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:42 pm

Guys, time to stop. Not the right place to do this. Sure, I've got my opinions, and right about now, I'd REALLY like to go on a tyraid, pat a few people on the back, and punch a few others, but that'd be irresponsible, not to mention against the rules. I really want this thread to stick around, seeing as this is a big deal for HDC, but it can't if it keeps going the way I think it will. Just hold your tongues, or duke it out somewhere else. Just not here.

CTFan

Twisted Warthog · Post by **Twisted Warthog** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:44 pm

Why was my post deleted?

ZN13 · Post by **ZN13** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:45 pm

Errr...

CTFan wrote:hold your tongues

Ok...

daguuy · Post by **daguuy** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:45 pm

CronoTriggerfan wrote:Guys, time to stop. Not the right place to do this. Sure, I've got my opinions, and right about now, I'd REALLY like to go on a tyraid, pat a few people on the back, and punch a few others, but that'd be irresponsible, not to mention against the rules. I really want this thread to stick around, seeing as this is a big deal for HDC, but it can't if it keeps going the way I think it will. Just hold your tongues, or duke it out somewhere else. Just not here.

CTFan

The point of the thread is HDC's decision whether or not to defend his country's freedom (if it's not, HDC tell me). This brings the point of defending it from what and if it's even possible/worth it. That's exactly what I was talking about.

Post by **CronoTriggerfan** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:48 pm

But we don't need to get into personal political disambiguations to do so, daguuy. If you're looking for a model response that doesn't go too far, look at Jones' post on the first page. It interjects just enough, and is good advice.

CTFan

soundwave · Post by **soundwave** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:49 pm

daguuy wrote:That involved us, not the people we attacked. You have to just accept that you can't keep the entire country safe from terrorists. It's imposible.

Again, throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Can't stop all of 'em, so just sit back and see what's on TV? This is ridiculous, grow up. I really hope you aren't this arrogant when you're old enough to vote (luckily we'll have another president serve his term before you can plague us)

Twisted Warthog · Post by **Twisted Warthog** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:50 pm

Throwing the baby out of the bathwater?

daguuy · Post by **daguuy** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:23 pm

soundwave wrote:throwing the baby out with the bathwater

How about using the right bathwater, not the kind that makes things worse. Modern wars have not made us safer, so neither will joining the army to support them.

And as long as we're using metaphors, you're using a knife to remove a mosquito bite.