You posted once...JackFrost22 wrote:crud I just relized i posted 50+ posts today how did that happen
Then you posted twice...
...
Radica Genesis cartridge connection SUCCESS!!!!
Moderator: Moderators
-
Red5
Having trouble locating some desoldering braid...
Wilcos - don't even sell soldring irons, half the store was filled with kids toys
B&Q - soldering irons, check. Solder, check. Flux, check. Desoldering braid, WTF there isn't any!
Anyone got any clues for a (common) UK store where I can buy some, I can't even get the edge connector out of my old Mk1 without it
Wilcos - don't even sell soldring irons, half the store was filled with kids toys
B&Q - soldering irons, check. Solder, check. Flux, check. Desoldering braid, WTF there isn't any!
Anyone got any clues for a (common) UK store where I can buy some, I can't even get the edge connector out of my old Mk1 without it
-
Red5
Problem solved.. just spoke to my mate Dez & he has Desoldering braid & a Desoldering pump which he's going to let me borrow so I should be able to have a go at this myself later this week. I'm not looking forwards to de/re-soldering stuff on the Radica motherboard though, it's freaking TINY!
The Radica shouldn't need bankswitching BTW Ben, to the best of my knowledge the only game that uses that is Street Fighter : The New Challengers which is 40Mbit. A "stock" Genesis can handle upto 32Mbits AFAIK, so unless Radica cut corners and gave this beastie less memory it *should* work. Maybe you have a couple of the wires mixed up (the ones needed for the 42-Pin/chip genny carts) or maybe something should be connected to the Radica chip 1 connector after all? Stuff that's likely to never work are the things that use the extra data line pins (labelled as N/A on ben's diagram) such as the Game Genie & 32X, this is why they won't work on a Majesco Genesis 3 - they aren't wired to anything!
The Radica shouldn't need bankswitching BTW Ben, to the best of my knowledge the only game that uses that is Street Fighter : The New Challengers which is 40Mbit. A "stock" Genesis can handle upto 32Mbits AFAIK, so unless Radica cut corners and gave this beastie less memory it *should* work. Maybe you have a couple of the wires mixed up (the ones needed for the 42-Pin/chip genny carts) or maybe something should be connected to the Radica chip 1 connector after all? Stuff that's likely to never work are the things that use the extra data line pins (labelled as N/A on ben's diagram) such as the Game Genie & 32X, this is why they won't work on a Majesco Genesis 3 - they aren't wired to anything!
-
benheck
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1887
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
- Location: Wisconsin - Land of Beer and Cheese and Beer
- Contact:
Oops! The Radica actually has 21 address lines!
Some notes:
First of all I realized I've made another DUMB mistake - when I relabeled the address lines on my drawing A0-A20 I forgot A0 when counting the lines! This means the Radica has 21 address lines allowing for 2 meg games (instead of my erroneous guess of 20). So the Radica can access 2 meg games. However I don't know why some older titles (like Afterburner or Ghouls and Ghosts) don't work, I highly doubt that are even 1 meg.
I should have realized this stupid mistake when games like EWJ2 and Batman & Robin (clearly not 1 meg games) were working.
So this DOES NOT invalidate the pinouts I posted, it just invalidates my ability to count
If anyone has ROMS of Genesis games that tells the size... so 2 meg titles like Contra Hard Corps will work but 3 meg Streets Of Rage 3 won't... in theory. Be a good way to test. (Will need actual carts as well)
Cartridge connectors:
Goto Digikey.com and search for "card edge connector" with 64 contacts. 3 choices will come up, they'll all work as far as I know (Can't quite remember which I ordered, but the pitch is important as it refers to the size/spacing of the contacts themselves)
40megaBITS is actually 5 megaBYTES. BYTES is BITS divided by 8. Megabytes are what our computers measure stuff in nowadays, BITS was a way (I've always assumed) of making the games sound bigger than they really were.
I was always a little confused by this until I started seeing the size of NES roms in emulators in the late 90's. 128k games (Contra, Zelda) were called 1 megaBIT games in the magazines. One 8-bit byte has 8 bits (obviously) so that's where it comes from. "128k" or "512k" are intangible terms, where MEGABIT sounds cool to a 13 year old.
The Genesis cartridge slot has 23 address lines so it should be able to access up to 8 megs. Unless it's somehow crippled to 4 and that's why an extra bank is needed to access 5 megs (Street Fighter)
But getting bogged down by these now-BS terms like "megabit" really hampers actual progress in figuring out cart sizes, how many pins you need, etc. So let the BITS rest in PIECES.
EVERY ROM contact from the Radica has been used... as compared to a regular Genesis ROM it has an extra VCC (+5 volts) and a pin (pin 1) that does nothing. The N/A contacts listed on my cartridge out aren't needed for most games, and if you take games apart you'll see no actual connections go to those spots (from the ROM) Crap like the 32X probably uses them for staying N sync.
First of all I realized I've made another DUMB mistake - when I relabeled the address lines on my drawing A0-A20 I forgot A0 when counting the lines! This means the Radica has 21 address lines allowing for 2 meg games (instead of my erroneous guess of 20). So the Radica can access 2 meg games. However I don't know why some older titles (like Afterburner or Ghouls and Ghosts) don't work, I highly doubt that are even 1 meg.
I should have realized this stupid mistake when games like EWJ2 and Batman & Robin (clearly not 1 meg games) were working.
So this DOES NOT invalidate the pinouts I posted, it just invalidates my ability to count
If anyone has ROMS of Genesis games that tells the size... so 2 meg titles like Contra Hard Corps will work but 3 meg Streets Of Rage 3 won't... in theory. Be a good way to test. (Will need actual carts as well)
Cartridge connectors:
Goto Digikey.com and search for "card edge connector" with 64 contacts. 3 choices will come up, they'll all work as far as I know (Can't quite remember which I ordered, but the pitch is important as it refers to the size/spacing of the contacts themselves)
40megaBITS is actually 5 megaBYTES. BYTES is BITS divided by 8. Megabytes are what our computers measure stuff in nowadays, BITS was a way (I've always assumed) of making the games sound bigger than they really were.
I was always a little confused by this until I started seeing the size of NES roms in emulators in the late 90's. 128k games (Contra, Zelda) were called 1 megaBIT games in the magazines. One 8-bit byte has 8 bits (obviously) so that's where it comes from. "128k" or "512k" are intangible terms, where MEGABIT sounds cool to a 13 year old.
The Genesis cartridge slot has 23 address lines so it should be able to access up to 8 megs. Unless it's somehow crippled to 4 and that's why an extra bank is needed to access 5 megs (Street Fighter)
But getting bogged down by these now-BS terms like "megabit" really hampers actual progress in figuring out cart sizes, how many pins you need, etc. So let the BITS rest in PIECES.
EVERY ROM contact from the Radica has been used... as compared to a regular Genesis ROM it has an extra VCC (+5 volts) and a pin (pin 1) that does nothing. The N/A contacts listed on my cartridge out aren't needed for most games, and if you take games apart you'll see no actual connections go to those spots (from the ROM) Crap like the 32X probably uses them for staying N sync.
they have desoldering braid at ratshack (radioshack)Red5 wrote:Having trouble locating some desoldering braid...
Wilcos - don't even sell soldring irons, half the store was filled with kids toys
B&Q - soldering irons, check. Solder, check. Flux, check. Desoldering braid, WTF there isn't any!
Anyone got any clues for a (common) UK store where I can buy some, I can't even get the edge connector out of my old Mk1 without it
-
JackFrost22
- Sir Posts-alot
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:10 pm
-
SgtBowhack
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:16 am
- Location: Chicago, USA
Super Street Fighter II is 5MB. But Ben's right, 5MB shouldn't be a problem since there are 23 address lines.
The thing I don't get now is why the heck Virtua Fighter 2 (a 4MB cart) works when you're missing an address line it needs? How long did you play it?
I'm not convinced that the thing doesn't have a 22nd address line, actually. I mean, it does have a 32Mbit ROM (the label even says so), so the machine must support addressing 4MBytes, somehow. I'm pretty sure most of the games are 4Mbit, and there'd only need to be 4 of those to push it over 2MBytes. I'm not too sure on Columns though, that one may only be 2Mbit.
Like I've said a couple of times before, fairly sure the incompatibilities are likely something to do with region lockout stuff. There probably isn't a jumper telling it what region the games are and therefore it goes "What? What do I do now?" Might want to try adding that region info in somehow.
BTW: does anyone know how the Genesis 2 and 3 got away with not having the Z80? That seems like it'd be really detrimental...
Anyone know from something like this how to send region info to the cartridge? Maybe if the cartridge can be appeased, we can get higher compatibility out of it.
The thing I don't get now is why the heck Virtua Fighter 2 (a 4MB cart) works when you're missing an address line it needs? How long did you play it?
I'm not convinced that the thing doesn't have a 22nd address line, actually. I mean, it does have a 32Mbit ROM (the label even says so), so the machine must support addressing 4MBytes, somehow. I'm pretty sure most of the games are 4Mbit, and there'd only need to be 4 of those to push it over 2MBytes. I'm not too sure on Columns though, that one may only be 2Mbit.
Like I've said a couple of times before, fairly sure the incompatibilities are likely something to do with region lockout stuff. There probably isn't a jumper telling it what region the games are and therefore it goes "What? What do I do now?" Might want to try adding that region info in somehow.
BTW: does anyone know how the Genesis 2 and 3 got away with not having the Z80? That seems like it'd be really detrimental...
Anyone know from something like this how to send region info to the cartridge? Maybe if the cartridge can be appeased, we can get higher compatibility out of it.
-
benheck
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1887
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
- Location: Wisconsin - Land of Beer and Cheese and Beer
- Contact:
Remember to check the front (parts/label) side of a cartridge:
These are the highest address pins. A9, A10 and A19 are pretty much guaranteed as most Genny games are 512k and up. A 1 meg game needs A20, and a 2 meg needs A21.
(Note: This drawing assumes starting with A1 and ending with A23)
So that's 6 visible (used) traces in this spot. Most (in fact, I think ALL) of the cartridges I have only have 6 visible traces here, even Sonic 3. Vectorman has 5, making it 1 meg. Virtua Fighter 2 also have only 5. Remember, it's a crappy 2D Genesis version of the game with about as many animation frame as a Hanna Barbara cartoon.
These are the highest address pins. A9, A10 and A19 are pretty much guaranteed as most Genny games are 512k and up. A 1 meg game needs A20, and a 2 meg needs A21.
(Note: This drawing assumes starting with A1 and ending with A23)
So that's 6 visible (used) traces in this spot. Most (in fact, I think ALL) of the cartridges I have only have 6 visible traces here, even Sonic 3. Vectorman has 5, making it 1 meg. Virtua Fighter 2 also have only 5. Remember, it's a crappy 2D Genesis version of the game with about as many animation frame as a Hanna Barbara cartoon.
-
benheck
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1887
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
- Location: Wisconsin - Land of Beer and Cheese and Beer
- Contact:
Oh, something else. I hooked the N/C pad from the Radica ROM spot to A21 on the cartridge connector... JUST IN CASE. It didn't make a difference (I'm pretty sure it's NC, and some of the Genesis ROM pinouts I consulted yesterday have pin 1 as NC as well)
But if someone could find "the missing 2 address lines) they'd be a HERO!
-Ben
But if someone could find "the missing 2 address lines) they'd be a HERO!
-Ben
-
SgtBowhack
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:16 am
- Location: Chicago, USA
Let's also remember that if I remember correct the VF2 box even says it's 32Mbit. 
And that agrees with this.
They wasted a bunch of space making a really crappy port. So that tells me you probably mistraced something if you think it's only an 8Mbit game.
Or it uses bankswitching of some sort for some reason, which would make sense and solve a lot of mystery. Vectorman is 16Mbit too. Both EWJs are 24Mbit according to it... dunno why all of these would be wrong... something must be weird here. But anyway, there's apparently something we don't know going on. I know all of those aren't 1-2MBytes.
And that agrees with this.
They wasted a bunch of space making a really crappy port. So that tells me you probably mistraced something if you think it's only an 8Mbit game.
Or it uses bankswitching of some sort for some reason, which would make sense and solve a lot of mystery. Vectorman is 16Mbit too. Both EWJs are 24Mbit according to it... dunno why all of these would be wrong... something must be weird here. But anyway, there's apparently something we don't know going on. I know all of those aren't 1-2MBytes.
-
JackFrost22
- Sir Posts-alot
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:10 pm