Need Serious Help! [Power Wheelchair/Car combo]

Feel100 · Post by **Feel100** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:19 am

Hello everyone, I was directed to this forum after I posted my question in Yahoo! Answer.. Not sure if this is the right place to post but here goes:-

Is it possible to integrate a power wheelchair into a car & operate the car just by using the joystick control of the power wheelchair? This is just a rough idea & I know it can be perfected.. I'm a handicap guy with just a usable left arm(right arm & both legs are paralyzed) so I was thinking if this whole idea is possible...
Maybe a similar product is already out there that I do not know of?
Please advise.. thx.

Gordon1 · Post by **Gordon1** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:45 am

Not to be a downer but I believe that would be illegal. There is a bunch of crap you would have to go through (legally) when building your own vehicle. It would be possible, a bunch of custom fabrication would bee needed, a bunch of servos, electronics, and of course a lot of finicky crap.

Feel100 · Post by **Feel100** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:13 am

I realize that there will be a lot of paperwork to be done to legalize this "car" if it can be built..
But problem is I don't even know where to start.. I was hoping someone here could guide me or lend me a hand...
I'm determined to make it a success..

hy phrend · Post by **hy phrend** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:43 am

Possibly have a port on the front of your wheelchair so that when you drive your wheelchair into the car it plugs in when you get into the drivers spot. Then have a miniPC or something with a program to interpret the joystick movements from your wheelchair to drive the car. Just an idea.

Kyo · Post by **Kyo** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:47 am

all you would really need to do is wire up some kind of mechanical control to the joystick. I assume that the government wouldn't be too happy with a solution like that (as homebrew electronics are just that - not professional, therefore more likely to fail)

Kurt_ · Post by **Kurt_** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:57 pm

The first thing to do is find a car with all-electronic controls, I would think. That means finding a car with electronic steering, electronic braking, and electronic accelerating. I'm not sure, but I think power steering still has the steering wheel hooked up to the axle mechanically, and I'm sure brakes and accelerators use hydraulics for the most part.

An alternative, which *might* be easier, is to build a system like in mythbusters, where you have a few servos, motors, and other doohickeys that hook up to an existing steering wheel, brakes, etc. that go to a wireless controller. They've done it more than once, and it doesn't look overly expensive.

Some cons I can think of:

1) It takes up space. You *might* not be able to sit in the driver's seat, and *might* have to relocate the turn signals. Of course, I take it you're not using the standard seat anyways, so you can just take it out.

2) The controls would most likely use two joysticks. I know lots of one-handed gamers can easily pull off dual analog with one hand, but it's a matter of your own skills when you're controlling two tons of high-speed metal with a single hand. The current idea, using one joystick like in wheelchairs, doesn't make any sense. Responsible drivers NEVER accelerate around corners. So, like I said, you'd need two: One for gas/brake [a strictly up and down joystick], and one for left and right [steering]. You might even be able to integrate some turn signals into the controller. The reason you don't want to use only one joystick is simple. Accidents happen. You slip half an inch while turning, sneeze, or anything of the sort, and your car is accelerating, going 60 and a steep corner, fishtailing, donuts, mass chaos, etc. My point: With one inch of full motion, you want to minimize the possibility for accidents. Which means, whether you like it or not, two separate joysticks.

3) No offense is meant on this one: Are you sure you can legally drive? I mean, control of one limb might not be enough to qualify for a valid license, and you might be (or be seen by others to be) a serious hazard on the road. But hell, power to you! It's doable, maybe not license-able.

palmertech · Post by **palmertech** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:11 pm

To add on to Kurts idea, another thought. European cars have the steering on the left, right? Just hook up one of those mythbusters rigs with a bunch of servomoters, and put the REAL drivers seat on the right hand side of the car. Smart, eh?

I looked into the possibility of making a street-legal electric car once, and if you are in the USA: Absolutely not. Just to prove the integrity of the car, you have to pay to have your car exhaustively tested by the government, then prove reliability, and then, assuming you can get the car itself street legal: Insurance. No insurance company in their right mind wold insure this thing with the amount of risk it involves, at least not without REALLY, REALLY high premiums (If at all).

In the US at least, people missing an arm can indeed get a license.

Some of the REALLY high end Mercedes-Benz cars have all electronic controls, but trying to interface with them is out of the question, as they are only made to work with the highly specialized onboard computer.

In short, even if you can get the thing road legal, if your insurance company does not have it in their database, they will usually send an agent to inspect it, then add it. I doubt it would pass for them, though, and insurance is a legal requirement in the US.

mmoshkowich · Post by **mmoshkowich** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:21 pm

Try emailing the guys from prototype this they build such awsome things!

Post by **Triton** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:45 pm

one of my dads friends is paralyzed from the waste down and he has a 1980 el camino with hand controls for accelerator and brake, he has full use of both arms tho.

vskid · Post by **vskid** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:47 pm

palmertech wrote:To add on to Kurts idea, another thought. European cars have the steering on the left, right? Just hook up one of those mythbusters rigs with a bunch of servomoters, and put the REAL drivers seat on the right hand side of the car. Smart, eh?

Its the US that has the driver on the left, Europe is right. Not a bad idea, though.
The main problem is reliability. If you're driving down the road and your controls die.... If you could somehow figure out a way to make the controls mechanically linked to the steering, gas, and brake, that would probably be better than a drive-by-wire system. Don't forget the gear shift, too, you could probably use a normal automatic, but they're on the right (on left driver cars) so they might not be easy to reach.

Feel100 · Post by **Feel100** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:31 am

Sry guys.. I forgot to mention that I'm not in the U.S.
I live in Malaysia.
From the replies above, there seems to be a lot of obstacles not to mention the electronic stuff which I don't understand at all, to begin with..

What about products that are readily available in the market today?
Maybe some hand controls or electronic devices that I could install in a car to enable me to drive?

Kyo · Post by **Kyo** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:21 pm

Actually, our steering wheel is on the left as well

it's on the right in england, though

jjhammerstein · Post by **jjhammerstein** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:34 pm

Feel100 wrote:Sry guys.. I forgot to mention that I'm not in the U.S.
I live in Malaysia.
From the replies above, there seems to be a lot of obstacles not to mention the electronic stuff which I don't understand at all, to begin with..
What about products that are readily available in the market today?
Maybe some hand controls or electronic devices that I could install in a car to enable me to drive?

You have full use and strength in your arm, right?

So, you could work the steering wheel with the one hand, and accelerate/brake with finger controls or something.

Turn signals with head?

Kyo · Post by **Kyo** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:40 pm

The thing is, even if you have a seperate power joystick/potentiometer/whatever, it's still fairly easy to slip and make an accident. some kind of solution that you twist would prevent this to some degree, but have the downside of not being able to slow down as fast, which could also cause an accident.
Well, maybe that twisting thing in combination with a "emergency-stop" button which is placed somewhere reachable, but where you wouldn't accidentally push it.

Kurt_ · Post by **Kurt_** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:45 pm

I suggest not giving up on this idea. It's things like this that raise awareness of disabilities. I mean, up until a year or two ago, nobody thought "hey, maybe I should sell a one-handed controller!". This made everyone else realize that single-handed people like to play games too. Would would have thought!

If you want to drive, all power to you. If you don't know, learn. If you don't learn, you'll never know.

Perhaps try a simple modification to your power chair. Slap twice as many batteries on there, pop in a larger motor, remove and speed restrictions it might have, and you'll have yourself a mode of transportation that could go the rough equivalent speed of a bike.

Or modify/build an electric go-kart. Sure, you wouldn't be going on any highways or cross-country trips, but it could get you to the supermarket and back.

Building an electric vehicle from scratch is relatively simple. It doesn't need a transmission, gearbox, or any fancy car things. You have a motor with a gear, a shaft with a larger gear, and a chain linking them. Assuming they're both mounted securely, you hook the motor up to a battery (and a way to regulate the speed), wheels to the axle, and you've got the simplest electric car alive! (Two wheels!). You get my drift.

I suggest, if you're really not sure of your abilities, to put an ad in the paper or something. "Help me build a car I can drive - I can only use one hand. Will pay for help."

What engineer could resist that? Especially for some loose change?

Once again, from what you've said, you're severely handicapped. There are few, if any, insurance companies that would insure you. So, I suggest looking to alternatives to cars as a mode of transportation. I'm not saying give up, I'm just saying rethink the problem, right from square one.

[1] (get it?

) What is the purpose? You want to get from your house to where? How far away is it? Will you drive on the street? If so, what are the speed limits to the places you want to go? If you can't make something to go this fast, could it be driven on the sidewalk? Etc etc.

Don't be so focused on one objective when other possibilities are passing you by.

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I just thought of something crazy. A gyroscopic hamster ball, with a person inside. Street legal hamster ball.