Handheld PC!!!

someone · Post by **someone** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:35 pm

SgtBowhack wrote:It can be powered by batteries. Someone just said something silly. With the proper voltage regs, anything can be run off of batteries. If you have a 24v LiIon battery, you can use a pair of 12v regs like this:
input output ground
24v 24v 12v

input output ground
12v 12v 0v

So basically what you're doing here is hooking up the 24v positive voltage to the input of the first reg, and putting the ground of the first reg into the input of the second reg. The difference between output and ground is 12v, so the first reg will think 12v is ground. This is fine. You want this. Because now you take that 12v and call it ground. From there you can get -5v by adding a 7v regulator to the lower reg (in other words, +7v becomes your -5), you have -12 already, it's the ground from the battery. And then 17v (using a 5v regulator) becomes your 5v. The problem is finding regulators that can handle the amperage you'll need. But that's the theory behind getting all the voltages... you'll also need 3.3v too probably. Anyway, using a lot of regulators you should be able to get all of your voltages

Most likely what you'll need is some sort of inverter attached to a mini-ITX power supply though In short, it's not impossible, but it'll be so huge that buying a laptop would be the better option.

Realistically, it is beyond consumer capabilities to produce a laptop-type thing. Something like one of these or these (if they ever come out) might be your best bet- they already are set up for low power and size. I know it's not quite as cool as building your own, but until VIA does something smart and adds a +12v in version of their nano-ITX boards (and why not?) the ability to make your own portable with them is severely limited.

me??? as in the "someone"

you can get mini-itx adapters that allow you to run the machine off of 12V DC without modding it or otherwise voiding your warrenty.

SgtBowhack · Post by **SgtBowhack** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:43 pm

Heh, sorry, someone. Didn't mean you. Those adapters sound cool though.

cennar · Post by **cennar** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:03 pm

i was going to make a handheld pc im going to wait till the nanos get out then ill start... i want a 12 cm board a 120 gb drive 5" screen and a toast case.

Post by **SpongeBuell** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:20 pm

someone wrote:
SgtBowhack wrote:It can be powered by batteries. Someone just said something silly. With the proper voltage regs, anything can be run off of batteries. If you have a 24v LiIon battery, you can use a pair of 12v regs like this:
input output ground
24v 24v 12v

input output ground
12v 12v 0v

So basically what you're doing here is hooking up the 24v positive voltage to the input of the first reg, and putting the ground of the first reg into the input of the second reg. The difference between output and ground is 12v, so the first reg will think 12v is ground. This is fine. You want this. Because now you take that 12v and call it ground. From there you can get -5v by adding a 7v regulator to the lower reg (in other words, +7v becomes your -5), you have -12 already, it's the ground from the battery. And then 17v (using a 5v regulator) becomes your 5v. The problem is finding regulators that can handle the amperage you'll need. But that's the theory behind getting all the voltages... you'll also need 3.3v too probably. Anyway, using a lot of regulators you should be able to get all of your voltages

Most likely what you'll need is some sort of inverter attached to a mini-ITX power supply though In short, it's not impossible, but it'll be so huge that buying a laptop would be the better option.

Realistically, it is beyond consumer capabilities to produce a laptop-type thing. Something like one of these or these (if they ever come out) might be your best bet- they already are set up for low power and size. I know it's not quite as cool as building your own, but until VIA does something smart and adds a +12v in version of their nano-ITX boards (and why not?) the ability to make your own portable with them is severely limited.
me??? as in the "someone"

you can get mini-itx adapters that allow you to run the machine off of 12V DC without modding it or otherwise voiding your warrenty.

That's the problem with your name. I now request that the word "somebody" be used for the pronoun, "someone" be used for the word. Get it? Got it? Good.

someone · Post by **someone** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:39 pm

http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=10#p1813 this is the type of adapter i was talking about, but you can find one MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper if you look around.

try http://www.logicsupply.com they have a lot of mini-itx stuff

try something like this http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info ... cts_id/228
its much more reasonabley priced and logic supply has many dc-dc adapters to choose from good luck!

Epicenter · Post by **Epicenter** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:45 am

Laptops and notebooks can run on batteries because they use specially designed low power components you will NOT find on a standard Mini-ITX board. The notebooks I've used with desktop components, e.g. a gaming class notebook with a Pentium 4 @ 2.8 GHz and a GeForce 5600, got 25 minutes of battery life. 15 in a game. Literally. Compare it to my new notebook with a Pentium-M @ 1.4 GHz and a Radeon 9200 getting 6 hours, 3 hours in a game. No desktop components can really compete with that.. and notebook components would be pretty hard to shoehorn into anything that could be called even remotely 'pocket sized'.

If you do rig something up from say, notebook parts, don't expect any stellar performance or miraculously small size.

SgtBowhack · Post by **SgtBowhack** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:53 am

Yeah, I'm gonna go so far as to say I think this is a really silly idea. I don't see why anyone would really do this, other than to waste a bunch of money. It's not like laptops aren't portable enough. And they're far better than something Joe Schmo can build. In my post about the batteries, I was just saying how it could be done, not how it should (because in reality to get the wattage you'd need a crapload of those regulators in parallel).
And from there, you'd have to design a case that holds the monitor LCD and the LCD driver and all that... and the keyboard and... let's just face it. Laptops rock.
And BTW, cennar, good luck finding a 5" 640x480 screen (or better)... for a reasonable price, anyway. Can't use a PSone screen for this, lad

Unidentified Assilant · Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:40 am

I only asked... and by the way someone when he said someone was talking silly he meant me.

I said it would be impossible to run a PC off battries.

cennar · Post by **cennar** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:31 am

SgtBowhack wrote:Yeah, I'm gonna go so far as to say I think this is a really silly idea. I don't see why anyone would really do this, other than to waste a bunch of money. It's not like laptops aren't portable enough. And they're far better than something Joe Schmo can build. In my post about the batteries, I was just saying how it could be done, not how it should (because in reality to get the wattage you'd need a crapload of those regulators in parallel).
And from there, you'd have to design a case that holds the monitor LCD and the LCD driver and all that... and the keyboard and... let's just face it. Laptops rock.
And BTW, cennar, good luck finding a 5" 640x480 screen (or better)... for a reasonable price, anyway. Can't use a PSone screen for this, lad

honestly get off the forums.. i think where here to make what we want mr. laptops are not good handhelds, a lot of people wine about battrys and a lot of battrys ar not as hard to make as they look (dreamcast) any way if you took a look at the nano you would see that i could use a psone screen if i wanted to (and thats what iim going to do) and buddy serously get off these fourms if you think we cant make some thing as simple as that. (but if you think we could make an x-box... your a noob and you can stay, you just need to read more)

JackFrost22 · Post by **JackFrost22** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:17 am

Yeah I mean you can do the vga mad on a psone screen

HK-47 · Post by **HK-47** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:19 pm

Its solid state...

Some Parts in Detail:

Enclosure: The enclosure is a single piece of extruded T6-6061 aluminum that has had some finish machining on the top and bottom. It has been Type II Class 1 anodized (for the silver models) and Type II Class 2 anodized for the colored models. This is a really excellent finish, though, having designed and manufactured lots of parts finished in the anodizing process, I can say the silvers will withstand slightly more abuse than the colored models. Also, I would keep the colored ones out of direct sunlight for extended periods of time as the dye used to color them has a tendency to break down over time (it takes a LOT of sunlight though, but I know a lot of iPod mini owners are probably outdoor types, so hence, the caution).

Also, there is a clear plastic window glued into place that protects the LCD screen. I have not been able to remove it as of yet...

Battery: The unit is manufactured by Sanyo and is marked as "Li-lon." The model number is EC003. The excess wire coming off of it tells me that it is probably a complete off-the-shelf unit, and not something Apple had made just for the mini (if it was custom, there would be no excess wire).

Hard Disk Drive: Manufactured by Hitachi, it's really very tiny. The model is HMS360404D5CF00. The part number is 13G1768. It is wrapped in electrical tape and when I removed it, there were 3 Delrin bumpers fitted around the corners. I was rather surprised to discover that the drive is actually a CF card! I tried to mount it in my Lexar FireWire CF Card Reader but with no luck. My Canon Digital Rebel didn't recognize it either.

iPod mini autopsy. Clockwise from top - Hitachi 4GB Microdrive, Li-Ion battery pack, plastic top plate, two tiny screws, LCD display on main board (PortalPlayer chip under white label), anodized aluminum enclosure (Silver) and plastic bottom plate.

http://www.ipodlounge.com/articles_more ... 59_0_8_0_C

Epicenter · Post by **Epicenter** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:17 pm

cennar wrote:honestly get off the forums.. i think where here to make what we want mr. laptops are not good handhelds, a lot of people wine about battrys and a lot of battrys ar not as hard to make as they look (dreamcast) any way if you took a look at the nano you would see that i could use a psone screen if i wanted to (and thats what iim going to do) and buddy serously get off these fourms if you think we cant make some thing as simple as that. (but if you think we could make an x-box... your a noob and you can stay, you just need to read more)

Hey, I think you forgot to tell him to GET OFF THE FORUMS

You're not thinking here. The Dreamcast uses FAR less power than even a BASIC, SIMPLE PC does. A dreamcast requires small compact controls, not the huge clunky keyboard/mouse setup a PC does. The DC needs around, oh, 50-75 watts? Your average PC needs well over 200. You can use batteries if you can coax out the amperage. But you'll get about 10 MINUTES OF BATTERY LIFE.

You also say you can use a PS-One display? Oh really. Good luck coaxing 320x240 from your video card, and getting it to not look like ass on that awful little display. Plus, good luck reading text on it.

You need input devices. A keyboard alone, of any size, will make your device FAR larger than a handheld all on its own.

Your device will need substantial cooling which can't be adequately provided in that form factor. Plus the user will have a vent spewing hot air onto him the whole time he's using it.

You're looking at 2 options.

#1. Build a notebook (which is what you'll end up doing. These parts can't fit in a handheld.) It will cost more, be less sturdy and get almost no battery life at all. It will be slow, and you'll drive yourself nuts doing it.

#2. Buy a notebook. It'll be faster, cheaper, and get great battery life.

This idea is really just destined to failure. Look at the facts and stop ranting like a jackass. "GET OFF THE FORUMS HOW DARE YOU INSULT ME [UNSUBSTANTIATED ARGUMENT] [UNSUBSTANTIATED ARGUMENT] [UNSUBSTANTIATED ARGUMENT]"

Post by **gannon** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:16 pm

a mini-itx pc with compact flash hdd and psone screen should use about the same amount of power as a dcp actually. As far as emulation or older games goes, it'd be great for them. You can emulate a gamepad to work as a mouse so there's no problem there, and you can strip down a keyboard, map out it's matrix, and use it's encoder card along with some switches if you need a few of it's buttons.

Epicenter · Post by **Epicenter** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:43 pm

He's going to need a lot more than a few of its buttons, so that's out. As for the power consumption being the same, not if he intends to play games on it, which it sounds like he does intend to do. The C3 is a very low power chip but any GPU is going to suck up a LOT of wattage. This really isn't a good idea, period.

Plus, the C3 isn't a very good choice for any sort of gaming PC, as games like Doom 3, Half-Life 2, Far Cry, etc. have VERY stressful physics engines, that will NOT run well on a (relatively) slow chip.

Post by **gannon** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:54 pm

That's why I said "as far as emulation or older games go"