The Future of Videogames Part 4, 2007 Edition
According to the Mayan calendar and Mel Gibson, every 2 years when the sun reaches its winter solstice I must write an article in which I predict the “Future of Gaming”. (It’s true, you can find cave paintings about it)
Much like this dude, I am going to dish out the future
So here it is - “The Future of Videogaming 2007 Edition”. A lot of it is probably redundant if you’re familiar with our opinions in the podcast, but now you can see them as words. Includes obvious predictions for new 2008 models of the Xbox and Wii. Enjoy and have a safe and fun New Year’s…
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December 31st, 2007 at 5:48 pm
[…] The Future of Videogames Part 4, 2007 Edition According to the Mayan calendar and Mel Gibson, every 2 years when the sun reaches its winter solstice I must write an article in which I predict the “Future of Gamingâ€. (It’s true, you can find cave paintings about it) … […]
December 31st, 2007 at 6:38 pm
I thoroughly enjoyed the article and I can relate to everything growing up with the same toys in roughly the same time frame.
Especially, the Nintendo forgot about us stance and wondering if the gaming industry will crash again. It’s hard to get that across to people who enjoy the Wii and the current Nintendo offerings, not that there isn’t some fun to be had there. I just don’t think any gaming console can ever recapture what it is what like when the NES came out. So revolutionary and unlike anything you’d ever seen before on a console. The Nintendo of yesterday is nothing like the Nintendo of today and I doubt they will ever have anything like they had with the NES or even the SNES ever again. To me it still feels like they just gave up and threw in the towel on real gaming after the N64. They just picked this kid/family friendly boring comfort zone of meh to dwell in.
The fickle part is unbelievable true as well. It seems as of lately that any great title that comes out is all but forgotten about a week or two later barring some multiplayer games, Guitar Hero, and Rock Band. Even after the huge surge of games in the past couple of months people are already looking for the next titles and there isn’t much on the horizon for the next couple of months. Everything is moving supersonic and besides a few titles we’re sure to get the same rehashed FPS games and sequels that too closely resemble the original titles.
Sometimes you just can’t help but to think…………….. “Another Pac Man?!?!?”
December 31st, 2007 at 8:32 pm
I personally don’t agree with the analysis of the Wii (or the PS3, for that matter). Bringing up the crash of ‘84 in particular was an interesting choice, as I seem to recall that one of your past articles pointed out the vast amount of shovelware and “me-too” software that polluted the 2600 library. I suspect that had a lot more to do with it than anything else. Yes, non-gamer consumers are fickle, but they don’t abandon an expensive purchase quite that easily. If there’s nothing new coming out that they’re interested in, then yes, they’ll drop it fast. If the Wii is lacking in top-selling software for several years running (unlikely; Super Mario Galaxy’s already making waves at just over 4 million sold in less than 2 months), then I’d be concerned. But at this stage, it’s still not clear. The first year of any given console is never representative of its future, for better or for worse. And on one last note, did you forget your statement that “the weakest console always wins”, Ben? It’s held true pretty consistently for the last 6 generations of consoles, after all…
Also, the PS3 is unlikely to take off in any remarkable fashion, killer apps or not. Because while software sells a console, there’s more to it than that. Lots of factors (price of the system, overall popularity compared to the competition, corporate image of the company that makes the console, etc.) can influence the system, and a great game won’t guarantee the system will take off. Case in point: the 360 in Japan got two RPGs from very popular Japanese developers, and this pushed about 300,000 360s in Japan, and get about as many game sales overall each. On any other console, however, these games would probably be million sellers near-overnight in Japan. Instead, they’re more likely to sell better even in the US than in Japan. All because the system is not liked there. A similar effect happened with the Sega Saturn. Konami made enhanced versions of several of their early PS1 titles for the Saturn (including the cult classic, Symphony of the Night), but they sold worse than their PS1 counterparts. There’s more to consoles taking off than good software. The buyer has to want the system as well as the game. And the PS3’s not delivering for many gamers, for whatever their reasons.
Just my own insights on the matter, take them how you will. You don’t have to agree with me, but a counter-viewpoint can be beneficial at times.
January 1st, 2008 at 4:54 pm
I read on some website… IGN I think… That project H.A.M.M.E.R. (a cool game for the wii where you swing the remote around and smash evil robots and everything else with a hammer) was shut down by nintendo, and that the people making it were put on some maintstream “casual” game!
Then, on the other hand, nintendo did once talk about making a game called Disaster: Day of Crisis or something like that, which seemed pretty serious. That would mean they still have some titles left to dish out in the coming years…
The Wii is a tough call to make…
January 1st, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Sony has made a lot of mistakes and ran wild with arrogance and complacency, but I think they they are learning a hard lesson. I think the PS3 will be fine in the long run. I don’t think Sony will have as great of a market share dominance they have enjoyed for many years, but they still have a chance to make the PS3 great.
I recently bought the 40GB model and overall I’m very pleased with it. At this time my 360 still has a better overall well rounded gaming experience, but the PS3 is coming around. As far as games goes it needs some more exclusives, but IMHO based on the game lists so far for 2008 the PS3 looks like it might have a better year than the 360. For now Warhawk, UT3, and Uncharted have kept me off the 360 for a while.
The hardware, minus the horrible Sixaxis controller, is top notch. The PSN is not as polished or integrated as Live, but Sony is looking to fix all that and Home and “Trophies” are due out soon. As far as actual online game play I’ve had less disconnects and lag on the PSN than XBL (which has been broken for the past few days). The sales are starting to pick up with their prices becoming reasonable like they should have been from the beginning. Many 360 owners are owning both consoles now.
People also have to remember how well the PS2 is still doing and until there are those core Playstation selling games on the PS3 there isn’t much incentive for people to move up, but when that software does come, it will move PS3 units.
The 360 will not move in Japan, I don’t think it’s even selling as well as the first Xbox. All of the JRPGS have had completely abysmal sales.
As far as the Wii goes I’d like to see figures for the attachment rate. I know too many people who ran out and bought one, played it for about two weeks, and now it’s a dust collector, got traded in, or ebayed for profit.
January 2nd, 2008 at 1:37 am
Ben,
You have some interesing takes. I am always eager to know what you think about the industry. What I am really commenting on though is the fact that you seem to bash Nintendo alot. I have visted your site ever since you were hosted by calssicgaming.com and it seems that you have always had some sort of hatred for everything Nintendo that wasn’t either pre N64 era or Perfect Dark.
Do you really think that the Wii is as terrible as you say? I feel like the Wii appeals to all sort of gamers, casual and hardcore alike. There are plenty of gimmicky games out there like Wii sport and whatever cooking game but there are also games with depth for hardcore (”real”) gamers out there. None of my “casual gamer” roommates would care to sit down and play through Metroid Prime 3, or painstakingly collect every star in Mario Galaxy (like me). However, they do play Guitar Hero and Wii sports alot.
I can see your side of the coin on alot of your Wii bashing, but you really should give it some credit for innovation and quality. I guess with this comment I am putting my integrity on the line and will be labeled a fanboy, but who gives a damn, its just videogames.
January 2nd, 2008 at 9:02 am
PS3 laptop
January 2nd, 2008 at 11:00 am
Hey there’s no law that I have to like the Wii. The controller is interesting, but it’s not innovative to sell boatloads of shovelware crap to people who don’t care about gaming in the big picture. I do care, I mean hell, I make a living with it.
The PS3 is better quality made than either the 360 or Wii (in Japan, not China)
On the flip side of the coin, did you notice we had TWO podcast intros bashing to Xbox 360 heat issues in 2007, and another intro ripping on Vista? We try to dish it both ways…
January 3rd, 2008 at 8:42 am
Heh… both ways… right… Still it’s okay to be a little bais… One thing to remember though is that nintendo still has potential to dish out a lot of good stuff in the next couple of years… F-Zero anyone?
January 3rd, 2008 at 5:54 pm
By the way, did anyone hear that the wii has neo-geo games on the virtual console now?
January 3rd, 2008 at 8:50 pm
I suppose my viewpoint is a bit skewed, as I frequent a rather nice site known as VG Chartz, which tracks hardware and software sales on a weekly basis and has one of the best margins of error you can find on any sales-tracking site. Watching the weekly progression of how well Wii hardware and software has sold in the last several months (and particularly this last month), and how both 360 and PS3 lagged behind it considerably on both software and hardware sales during the key weeks of the Christmas season (a feat in and of itself for a supply-constrained console), I couldn’t help but get the impression that the whole “the Wii is a fad and/or will ruin the game industry” cries were just a bit… well, ignorant, to be perfectly blunt. Then I remembered that I’m frequenting a sales-tracking site, and as such, have a generally better idea of how the industry’s doing at the moment than a lot of people do.
I certainly mean no disrespect to your opinions, Ben, but I do think it pertinent to point out that extensive research into the state of the market really can help for an article like this, particularly if you want to get some numbers to support your opinions. A prediction on the future of video games tends to be much more meaningful with a healthy dose of numbers to back up your argument, and that was something your article was a bit lacking in. The general consensus of your article amongst VG Chartz regulars was that it was more anecdotal and bias-driven than based on facts, in fact. While you could term VG Chartz regulars as elitist (and be right to some extent, in that they regularly have access to reasonably accurate estimates of how the industry is really doing on a week-by-week basis), it is something to consider.
Apologies if any of this offends you, as that was certainly not my goal. If nothing else, I just wanted to suggest a site I particularly found useful for keeping up with the gaming industry as a whole. To see the future accurately requires a deep understanding of the past and present. I’m sure somebody famous and knowledgeable has said something along those lines before, and it really is true.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:22 am
No worries Sky! But 99% of my friends are gamers and I only know a few with a Wii. I just don’t know who’s buying it.
And Xbox 360 couldn’t of sold so bad, it appears Live got mauled since Christmas.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:52 am
A little off topic. The current hand held systems have been out for quite a while now. When is Sony and Nintendo going to release some next gen handhelds? I think it’t about time we got some new handhelds. The current ones are a bit weak it you look at their hardware specs and the games for them aren’t really that great. They could probably design some better games if they had some beefier hardware. What I think would really help in making better games for handhelds would be better player controls. While the controls on the DS aren’t too bad, whats the point in having buttons and a stylus, when you can only use one at a time? My gripe about the PSP is its analog “pad”. Whats the point in having a D-pad and an analog pad, when they’re pretty much the same thing. The only real difference is that the analog pad can move more free in the x and y direction. It would be pretty neat if Microsoft tried to “get in there” with it’s own handheld system, Sony and Nintendo shouldn’t be the only ones making money off of handhelds.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Meh… The problem isn’t the hardware. it’s the fact that people are still looking at these portables as a secondary factor. In the previous generation crappy run-offs and mini-games were acceptable for third party companies because the systems were’nt capable of much more. However, now you could make just about anything for these systems and no one is taking the initiative.
January 4th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
This is why a local perspective isn’t always as helpful as it can be, Ben. Areas can be representative of themselves, but not of the market as a whole. There are areas of the US where the 360 is practically unheard of and the Wii outsells even the DS (I live in one of those areas, actually), areas where the 360 rules the roost (sounds like your area fits this description), and even parts of the country where the PS3 is more popular than both (I understand parts of Florida have this happening). Seeing the bigger picture really helps clear things up.
On the subject of handhelds, the biggest detractor to more powerful handhelds is battery power required to make them run. The PSP does a fine job of showcasing this fact, draining its packed-in battery in record time. While a brief battery life is acceptable on a custom-made handheld, it’s not appreciated at all on a commercially marketed handheld meant to be a viable means of portable entertainment. It’s necessary, therefore, for a handheld to be low-power in the sense that it draws a minimal amount of power from the battery to run.
Interestingly enough, the Wii may well have opened the door to more powerful handhelds by promoting PowerPC architecture. PowerPC chipsets use very little power (about 10% of full-power chips), but manage to run at fairly reasonable speeds (the Wii’s estimated 729Mhz chip cleans the PSP’s 333Mhz clockspeed max nicely). And of course, technology does not exist in a void; PowerPC chips are getting faster, though the Wii still uses its lower-speed model. As soon as somebody finds a way to manufacture a low-power laser for disc-reading purposes, or when Flash cartridges become a commercially viable game storage medium, you may well see some very impressive handhelds coming out. As ever, they’re never going to spec with the current generation of consoles (they’re usually 1 to 3 generations behind the current hardware at best), but the next generations of handhelds will still be quite a bit better than the current generation of handhelds.
January 4th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
I saw something today saying the Xbox 360 has sold 17 million some worldwide. Has the Wii really sold more than that? And if any Wii games sells 8 million copies like Halo 3 I’ll eat one of my 3 hats.
My main concern with the Wii is that it’ll encourage gimmicks over hardware. Put in some shoddy hardware and a motion control and people will buy it. How is this that much different from those “TV game” and cheap guitars being sold on the endcaps at Walgreen’s?
RE: portables, they’ll be a new DS this year, sure as I’m breathing air at the moment. Another fun fact, while considered a “failure” compared to the DS the PSP has sold more than the Wii, 360 or PS3.
RE: fanboyism, the vast, vast majority of my electronics are and have always been Sony. Yet I rip on the PS3. So I think I’m somewhat fair.
January 4th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
I’d say you rip on all of them, actually. Though lately your cynicism has been kinda heavy towards Nintendo, you have to admit. Their business model is kinda strange, and generally looks out for numero uno more than anybody else, but it’s hard to begrudge them too terribly much when you realize that they still made a profit off even the GameCube. Anybody who can still pull a profit on an underperformer deserves at least a bit of recognition for defying the expectations of the industry norm. Oh yes, and people were saying the DS was going to die out because it was a “gimmick” system. 60mil+ units later, I think we can safely say that did not happen.
Oh, and Halo 3’s sales aren’t quite at 8 million yet. Probably 8 million copies have been sold to retailers, but the official numbers suggest closer to between 6 and 7 million copies sold to consumers. The Wii’s already passed that considerably with its pack-in (kinda a huge no-duh), and with the throwaway controller-bundled game pack (again, a big no-duh). What I find interesting is, most of Halo 3’s sales were made in the first month of its release, and it’s since been getting titchy sales weekly. Meanwhile, titles like Super Mario Galaxy and Wii Fit are holding steady or even picking up in sales after their launch. Games which fall into the “fad” category don’t usually do that.
While few non-first-party games have taken off on the Wii, that’s pretty normal for any Nintendo console. Even the SNES, arguably their most developer-supported system that had the most third-party million sellers of any Nintendo system, still had more Nintendo top-sellers in the first year of its life than anything else. History has a habit of repeating itself in small ways, and the one small way it repeats itself with every Nintendo console is that Nintendo always dominates on their own systems for the first year.
January 4th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2008/01/04/360-sales-reach-17-7-million-halo-3-surges-to-8-1/
January 4th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
There’s one thing sites like that usually don’t account for, and that’s the fact that the numbers companies provide in their quadra-yearly reports are numbers of units sold to retailers, not to consumers. Ergo it only tells you how high the demand is for their products with retailers, not with consumers. Sony used to report numbers of units produced, actually; that got them in trouble a year or two back when the number of PSPs sold didn’t even come close to the number of units they reported.
January 4th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Doh!
I’d love to see a next gen DS this year, but that’ll make me sad, because it’ll mean in less than a year the decent version of it’ll be released and.. well. Ben knows the drill.
How does it go. (Not counting color-only upgrades)
Gameboy 4 versions. original, pocket, light, color
Gameboy Advance, 4 versions. Advance, SP (two versions) and the Micro.
DS, 2 versions. Phat, lite.
So yea I’d love a new one… but can Nintendo crank out a quality handheld on the 1st try this time please? Please?
January 4th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Hmm… It seems like nintendo actually made a handheld before the gameboy that actually came in one version something to do with pockets maybe??? Eh, I don’t know. Look it up.
Also, the GBC is kind of in a class on its own and the only possible 2nd version of the sp you could be talking about is the added colors and extra bright screen, and that doesn’t really count… At least not to me…
January 4th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
TO SKY RENDER
Umm… I live in Florida and PS3s suck just as much here as everywhere else…
I guess I’m not in the right part :)
January 4th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Heh. It’s in a specific region of Florida. The way consoles weigh out with one another isn’t even consistent from city to city.
I thought it might be interesting to mention why Nintendo’s not gone the way of the dodo, nor is it about to any time soon. Their marketing strategy is threefold brilliant for keeping afloat: they use proprietary media, they sell systems at above production cost, and they make killer apps for their own hardware. Proprietary media is like a license to print money, since developers have to pay you to manufacture their games; even if their game flops, you’ve still made your money. Making a system that sells at a profit means you don’t lose anything to make the systems unless the system is an absolute flop and never sells. And by making their own killer apps, they ensure that they’ll get the lion’s share of the profits and stay in the game even if they’ve only got about five developers really giving them any support (as seen last generation with the GameCube).
I cannot think of a more effective way to look out for one’s own hide, nor a better way to ensure that you’re unpopular with developers everywhere. I mean really, with all that going on, being against Nintendo makes perfect sense. Because after all, who can compete with the Big N on their own platforms? History suggests that nobody really can; sure, you can become the second-best developer for a Nintendo console, but no chance of nabbing the crown from the console maker itself if it’s a Nintendo system. And if your software flops on a Nintendo system, well you can kiss your investment goodbye because those proprietary discs you just bought to print your unexpected flop don’t come with refunds. Granted, the loss is less than it was in the cartridge days, but it’s still more than with DVDs. But unfortunately for those developers who loathe the Nintendo method, the best platform to develop on is the one that sells best, and Nintendo’s back in that position again.
January 5th, 2008 at 1:41 am
Well there will be a lot more PS3 sales now that HD DVD just rolled over died. Sony was smart for putting the Bluray trojan horse in their system. Might be hurting for now on the gaming side, but they just stole the format war.
Off to ebay before there is a million 360 add ons……..
January 5th, 2008 at 11:51 am
“Hmm… It seems like nintendo actually made a handheld before the gameboy that actually came in one version something to do with pockets maybe??? Eh, I don’t know. Look it up.
Also, the GBC is kind of in a class on its own and the only possible 2nd version of the sp you could be talking about is the added colors and extra bright screen, and that doesn’t really count… At least not to me…”
———-
Er. I didn’t really think of the GBC like that. I guess if you consider the GBC its own generation, then there was only 1 build for that generation. (Also not counting Super Game Boy and Game Boy Player for Gamecube)
Also yea, the only hardware they changed on the SP Mark II was they changed a front light to a back light. The reason why I count that was that it was a hardware change, and they tried to re-bill everyone for it. (I actually didn’t even know there was an SP Mark II until waaaaaaaaaay later.
The million different colors of gameboys and DS’s they’ve come out with over the years… those’re all optional, but when they upgrade the hardware, it is usually something that was very needed.
I don’t want that to happen to the next handheld they roll out… Ya know?
re: “Hmm… It seems like nintendo actually made a handheld before the gameboy that actually came in one version something to do with pockets maybe??? Eh, I don’t know. Look it up.”
Do you mean their Game and Watch line? I had the Mario one. It was an amazing game. (The flat/wide screen screen LCD) I also had a few of the ones that were just on watches, but i can’t remember which.
I used it for an alarm, and also for a clock too. (For by my bed) For like a whole school year…
January 5th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Er, a caveat to that ^ is that I also had about 15 of those Tiger Electronics games… Then of course the Gameboy just wiped all of that out… But yea, some of those Tiger games were insanely good…. for their time…
January 5th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Heh… You realize if Nintendo throws a new DS in the mix Sony might not be far behind. They’ve been copying Nintendo a noticable amount latley with the motion control added to the PS3 and they almost identical (spelling?) changes to the PSP.
Also, I read somewhere (gamepro or IGN) that Sony is releasing yet another remake of the PS2. That puts them on the same level of repeditave-ness as Nintendo’s GBA if you only count complete remakes (since the SP had no overly noticable change)
Hmm… HEY, PRETTY INTERESTING. HUH BEN! Cough .. PS2p .. Cough
January 5th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Well, I read the article again and I’ve decided to compare it to a rock. That’s right a rock. Think about this as an illustration of each companies strategy and characteristics.
In your mind label three stick figures as Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo and then label three rocks as their corresponding consoles. Now watch as Sony rolls his rock at a steady pace until he gets caught in the weeds. This slows him down a lot, but doesn’t stop him. Then watch as Microsoft pushes his rock as hard as he can through the soft dirt moving at a decent speed. And finally watch as Nintendo kicks his rock down a small hill.
Think about this to find the true meaning, and after you’ve found that wonder for aproximately 4 to 5 seconds why you’ve just read this crap.
January 5th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
“And finally watch as Nintendo kicks his rock down a small hill.”
Yes, I did LOL. And I think you are right. Then I guess the next question is, why do I enjoy my Wii and my DS so much. :(
January 5th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
I won’t deny that the Wii is unlikely to get the bulk of the hardcor gamere audience any time soon. Problem is, the hardcore gamer audience buys about a quarter of all the consoles sold. Which means you’ve got that other 75% of systems going to people who aren’t at all hardcore. They don’t visit GameFAQs. They don’t debate the future of consoles. A lot of them don’t even care that there are any consoles besides the one they get. They buy whatever’s cheapest or looks most interesting (or both, if they can), and maybe a few games to play on it. These aren’t the people buying GTA and MGS. These are people who buy the likes of Brain Age, Nintendogs, and other “non-gamer” games. The ones who get a game system just to have fun, not to work at having fun, in other words. Not very charitable to look at hardcore games as work, but to Average Joe, they are work.
The PS3 and 360 don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting that audience, priced the way they are and lacking in a “gimmick” to put them above the competition in terms of unique appeal. And hate it though we may, casual players outnumber us significantly. Not just in actual numbers, but in potential numbers too; everybody who plays those Flash games on PC in passing moments of boredom is a potential customer under Nintendo’s “blue ocean” sales model. We dedicated gamers may be able to assure that 16 million copies of GTA:SA get sold, but the casuals can cause 20 million copies of Nintendogs to fly off the shelves, and ensure that the game never stops selling well. It hardly matters if they never get anything but a few games, there’s so many of them that Nintendo only stands to benefit even if they only ever sell 1 additional game per Wii user.
Of course, that hasn’t happened yet, and it’s not likely to happen either. The current Wii attach ratio is roughly 4 games per 1 console average, which is only just below the 360, and about 1 full game above the PS3’s current attach ratio. And the ratio’s getting bigger every week, as Wii software sales keep picking up. Taking the numbers into account, the Wii is performing well in software and hardware both. Don’t expect the system to be disappearing any time fast. Love it or hate it, it’s here to stay for a long while…
January 5th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
People love the Nintendo systems so much because they’ve kept the rock rolling. In other words they’re doing good. They got smart and found a solution to the “stationary rock syndrome”. The question is when this wave of sales and happiness passes, and it must at some point, will Nintendo pick up the slack and push the rock themselves… We will see…
January 6th, 2008 at 2:25 am
Again with the level of “shovel ware” on the wii, people didn’t pick on the PS2 for it’s level of crap games, which was huge and still getting bigger. Plus the Ps2 had a huge number of casual games from SingStar to Buzz each of which sold large numbers all before the Wii came out.
Nintendo has also stated from the start they are aiming to get those casual players into playing the real games, start them off with Wii sports and then move them onto to stuff like Mario Galaxy and before you know it they are playing real games.
Also what is with the hypocrisy with the Wii saying the only games that are coming from it are same game new squeal when you use Final fantasy, GTA and GT as the big PS3 games. None of which have done anything new for the last 3+ versions. Hint for GTA4, its GTA3 with better GFX and less game play as they are trying to make it realistic.
Also since when did the Halo and GTA players of the world become the so called hard core players, these are average at best games that are played mostly by the frat boy, chav, ned and the kids who try to prove there manhood by playing older games.
January 6th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Sequeals aren’t really debatable for some obvious reasons (jumps from 2D to 3D, what capcom did with resident evil etc.). And you can’t really use GT as an example because the whole point of the game is to be a realistic racing experience, and that goal doesn’t allow for big gameplay changes like mario kart or something simaliar would. I would go by the mentality “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. As much as I love Nintendo, and I do, there was SOMETHING broke during the gamecube generation. No one will know if Nintendo will fall back in to the rut or not at this point though, so I SUGGEST A SUBJECT CHANGE!
HEY BEN MAKE US SOME MORE CRAP TO TALK ABOUT! WILL YA!!!
January 6th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Also, what’s the J. for? Jake? Jerry? Jamal?
January 6th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
The PS2 at least had current hardware that could play all the latest games.
January 6th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
The Playstation and Xbox may have a lot of sequels on certain IPs, but they also get new IPs and great third party support.
It’s not that Nintendo titles aren’t great, it’s that it’s all they’ve had to offer for the past 3 decades.
That’s the main difference and like I said you get current hardware, not a last gen console with a next gen powerglove.
January 6th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
The PS2 had current hardware? Hehehe, that’s a good joke… The specs they were promising at E3 the year before the PS2 launch were almost as high as the GameCube actually sported. Instead of the 400Mhz “desktop PC quality” system they promised, we got a 297Mhz chip that couldn’t do half of what they said it could in the pre-release hype. They were saying the PS2 would be able to render the FMVs from PS1-era FF games in real time, which was a bigger lie than the cake (yay Portal reference!). Did the job of killing the DreamCast’s advantage of being first on the market, though…
January 6th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
The PS2 was plenty capable of running the games of the time just as good as the other consoles for that generation. Hence current hardware.
You can’t say the same about the Wii at all.
January 7th, 2008 at 1:02 am
The PS2 was able to run the software of its era because it defined how the games for consoles in that era were programmed. You’ll find that this tends to be the case, actually, and the reason why the GameCube and XBOX alike only have their full potential shown off by a handful of games.
The Wii cannot run games that the 360 and PS3 can, it’s true. But so far, that’s not been a disadvantage at all. Not for developers, anyway; it’s ticked off the most dedicated of the hardcore, but from the perspective of a game designer with a limited budget, the Wii’s a saving grace. The system limitations mean games can be made for far less money, look less impressive, but still net the game developers a mint as long as it sells reasonably well (moreso than a 360 or PS3 game could, anyway; I understand a few games have to make it to million-seller status just to break even, which is hardly a sign of a positive direction for the industry to take when the average game sells sub-300,000 copies). Wii games don’t have to compete with the likes of Oblivion and Bioshock for visual quality, because there’s nothing like that on the Wii.
In short, what the system can and can’t do won’t hold it back in the long run any more than being the least powerful hardware held back the NES, the Genesis, or any other “less impressive” platform. So the Wii won’t get the usual graphics-lover-appeasing visuals like Halo 3 has, but quite frankly, around 3/4ths of the people buying consoles couldn’t care less if the graphics were at the level of Bookworm Adventures as long as the game’s fun.
Ben’s convinced that the non-hardcore demographic doesn’t impact the industry much, but the sales numbers suggest otherwise. Even his own favorite current-gen system is reinforcing this in subtle ways. 360 Arcade’s best-selling titles are a poker game and a pool game, respectively. And not even by a token amount; they’ve sold millions more copies than they have of even cult classic hardcore gamer titles like SotN.
Anyway, I’ve said more than enough on this matter, and my stand should be clear enough by now. What we want isn’t always what we get, no matter how much we wish for it. A look at the cold hard facts and historical trends tends to reveal more than a look at one’s own preferences and desires.
January 7th, 2008 at 4:15 am
Someone quoted Ben as saying that the least powerful system always wins. That’s not the case. Ben said that the most powerful system never wins, but then added that doesn’t mean the least powerful system wins.
Sega Saturn, anyone? Dreamcast?
And on another note:
“Wii games don’t have to compete with the likes of Oblivion and Bioshock for visual quality, because there’s nothing like that on the Wii.”
Exactly. There’s nothing like that on the Wii. Couldn’t have put it better myself.
January 7th, 2008 at 9:23 am
VIRTUAL BOY!
January 7th, 2008 at 9:35 am
@Sky
The top selling Live Arcade games for 2007…
2007 Top Xbox LIVE Arcade Titles (Sales)
1 TMNT 1989 Arcade
2 Worms
3 Castlevania: SOTN
4 UNO
5 Bomberman LIVE
6 3D Ultra Minigolf Adventures
7 Sonic The Hedgehog
8 Pinball FX
9 Geometry Wars Evolved
10 Texas Hold ‘em
Source: http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2008/01/04/top-xbox-live-games-of-2007.aspx
January 7th, 2008 at 10:29 am
I was referring to profit made and copies sold overall, which is slightly different than weekly sales only (which that site clearly states it’s tracking). I look at the big picture whenever possible, not just the current situation. Also, Uno is also one of the top overall sellers; the pool game has brought in a lot of money too, but it’s not as popular download-count-wise. MS’ sales this last week for total sold thus far are (excluding free downloads)…
1. Uno (983,306 downloads) ($4,916,528)
2. Texas Hold’em (761,436 downloads) ($7,614,355)
3. Geometry Wars Evolved (571,805 downloads) ($2,859,026)
4. TMNT (412,068 downloads) ($2,060,338)
5. Carcassonne (400,326 downloads) ($4,003,260)
6. Worms HD (394,516 downloads) ($3,945,163)
7. Street Fighter 2 HF (373,149 downloads) ($3,731,490)
8. Marble Blast Ultra (351,894 downloads) ($3,435,159)
9. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (329,791 downloads) ($3,297,907)
10. DooM (316,698 downloads) ($3,162,168)
And at #11 is the pool game I’d been thinking of, Bankshot Billiards, which is a top-seller in terms of profits made (weighing in at $4,665,461, but only 315,013 downloads).
Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=748
Just looking at the figures, profits-wise, Texas Hold’em, UNO, and Bankshot Billiards have brought in more actual money than any other game on the service, particularly Texas Hold’em.
January 7th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
@SkyRender
The PS2 was just starting to use 90% of it’s power when the PS3 launched.
LOL @ Halo 3 being a graphics powerhouse. It wasn’t.
If you think more powerful hardware only deals in better graphics then you are sorely mistaken and incredibly naive.
January 7th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Well, either you’re not playing in HD or “Real” isn’t real enough for you. I’d say that hardware power is almost non-issue between Microsoft and Sony. The only thing to debate is marketing strategies and price more or less. Eh… Whatever…….. Eh? Nah….
January 7th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
re: …I do, there was SOMETHING broke during the gamecube generation.
I completely agree. It was the first Nintendo system I ever bought only like 10 games for. Almost all 10 of those games are all compilation CD’s of old games… Both of the Sonic collections, both of the Megaman collections, Cubivore (Awesome game, but ultimately an n64 game, not a gamecube game) and a few of the games I bought because I was a sheer idiot and thought they’d be fun, and that I’d play them, and I was wrong, and after buying like 2 brand new games, (The new paper mario and the 1st marvel ultimate alliance) I said to hell with this, and stopped.
The funnest games I had for gamecube besides the compilations was the wolverine game and the hulk game I got for like 5$ a piece because nobody else wanted them.
I never played Mario Sunshine, or Luigi’s Mansion. I returned F-Zero cuz the game made me sick, and I LOVED f-zero for the snes and n64…
So, Rumor-man. I think you’re absolutely 100% right. Something severely broke with the GameCube. Thankfully it didn’t carry over to the Advance/DS. I tell you what though, it has basically carried over to the Wii.
I love my little Elebits game, throwing crap around a house a blast.. I have DDR hottest party… I liked Link’s x-bow training, it was a REALLY FUN GAME! I have Metal Slug compilation… I’m going to get NiGHTs some day and I’m sure as hell going to get smash bros/mario kart. But that’s probably it. I’ll be done after that. Maybe Mario Party 5030201.5 if I can find it at a reasonable price.
But seriously. Compare that to the 50+ each nes, genesis, snes, n64, gameboy, advance and DS games I’ve owned…
They did break something on the GameCube… Something died when that system came out. And maybe it died cuz of the n64… but I owned like 75+ n64 games… Now my freaking gamecube is rotting in the garage cuz I have a Wii…
What freaking happened…
By the way I want a Ninja Turtles compilation, and an oldschool x-men compilation. Those’re the only games I’ll buy anymore. I’ll need a new flash drive for my Wii soon for all the games I’ve downloaded for my VC…
Anyway I’m done. Wish I had a different way of gettin hold of some of yall. I could talk about this until the Super Wii and DS64 Advance come out…
January 9th, 2008 at 10:13 am
@Sky
Actually the sales stats I referenced are for the year of 2007 as the site “clearly states” (”The following rankings are based on data collected from 1/1/07 – 12/31/07″).
Also, the data you list shows revenue and not profits. There is a big difference between the two.
The chart you list is an interesting read, but leaves out some important details that would have impacted “sales” for certain games. When “Texas Hold ‘Em” was initially released it was available for free for the first week it was out. This was when I downloaded it and I’m sure a large number of others did as well. This would skew the numbers for that title. Not saying that it isn’t a popular title on some level, but I think anyone would agree that people will download something for free no matter what it is. The same situation would have skewed the numbers for Carcassone, as it was available for free for the “Live is 5″ week a couple months back.
Another thing to look at is that Uno and Bankshot Billiards have been “bundled” with Xbox Live subscriptions at retail. This would help sales of those 2 games as well. Not saying they aren’t popular in their own right, but they have had certain advantages that other Live games have not. This would be similar to Wii Play (which incidentally I think is a joke to include as a high point for game sales discussions for the Wii). Wii Play is bundled with a Wii controller for I believe an extra $10. Now, if somebody is looking for a controller and they see that for a few more bucks they can get a game as well, don’t you think they would do it? I do. Does this mean Wii Play is a great game deserving of accolades for it’s sales? No. You can’t compare the sales of a game like that to a true retail release like Super Mario Galaxy or Zelda. It would be like bundling Bejeweled 2 with a 360 controller. A lot of people would probably spring for it for a few extra bucks, but it isn’t necessarily a game a large number of people would buy on it’s own.
And don’t even get me started on counting the sales of Wii Sports as it is bundled with every single Wii sold. What a shock that it has sold millions of copies! Even if the Wii had only sold 3 million units worldwide and been a colossal failure, Wii Sports would have still sold a whopping 3 million copies. If we want to get silly with this, then I’m sure Hexic HD has sold well in excess of 10 millions copies by now since it is on every hard drive equipped 360 that is sold. Now granted, many people buy the Wii for Wii Sports and few if any people buy a 360 for Hexic HD but if you’re just willing to count any game sales numbers you come across then you have to count those as well.
I’ve never cared for counting bundled games in with the sales figures of standard retail releases, because it ends up not being an apples to apples comparison. It is much more rational to compare the sales of Super Mario Bros. 2 to Super Mario Bros. 3 than to compare either of them to Super Mario Bros., or even Duck Hunt for that matter.
But hey, it is what it is. Just my two cents as I attempt to clear up some misconceptions that have been put forth in this thread.
January 9th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
I confess that I know little of how XBLA works, lacking a 360 as I do (largely because the few games on the system that interest me even remotely also came to PC or are scheduled to be ported to another system). Anyway, Wii Sports would inevitably be a top-selling game even if it weren’t bundled for the very reason that it is the thing that sells the Wii to casual players. Probably not quite as much (it’s not bundled in Japan, and it still sells at about a 55% attach ratio), but it would be impressive just the same.
The first year of the Wii has been no different than the first year of most Nintendo consoles. The NES was even more ridiculously skewed, as just about the only games on the system when it debuted in the US were Nintendo-made, and for almost 2 years at that. The situation has changed, of course; the market was basically dead in 1985, so there wasn’t any competition to speak of to steal Nintendo’s thunder when the line-up was only their software. As then, the success Nintendo is experiencing caught everybody off guard. What comes out for it this year will be more indicative of its future, as any developers who have jumped ship to Nintendo’s camp will be producing their first non-cash-in titles this year if they’re ever going to. 2009 will be (if historic trends are an indicator, which they usually are) the year when it’s certain what the Wii’s fate will be.
August 3rd, 2008 at 8:05 pm
…Pokemon is still very popular, moron *kicks article*
August 5th, 2008 at 2:55 am
“i know some of you are thinking that already happened ten years ago”
matter of opinion i enjoyed the n64 and ps2 and the wii is great fun as well having said that i also have a pretty powerful pc running every single quake game, Halo and others
its said that the best games take a minute to learn and years to master i belive that to be true, for example’s just look at every single quake game they all (excption of 4 and wars) have 3 basic controls (not counting mlook) jump, fire and move you can run quake by just using the mouse by using the click function on the mouse scroller to move forward enable mlook right mouse to fire left to jump and scroll to change weapons, this of course wasnt the BIG reason it was so populer no the BIG reason was that it was realesed at the same time as the net was getting more widly used so deathmatch games became really populer via quake, and are still playable today (download ez/n quake to play) but back to my point look at arcade games like frogger etc and other classics they are all very simple and all were extremly populer even halo controls were easy you had jump, fire move and wack.
simple games sell and will continue to sell the most populer games are those that take a minute to learn and a lifetime to master